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First time water cooling, any help is appreciated! - Page 5

post #41 of 68
Quote:
...or buy a kit

Yes, OP, if it's your first time probably do this. It's a lot easier and you're less likely to ruin your rig. smile.gif
Edited by ploppercon - 2/11/13 at 6:06am
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post #42 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocool135 View Post

looks like a good setup, the only thing the acetal does to my knowledge is give you a different look and maybe augment the price because of its workability.

Sweet! smile.gif
Yea it seems to be a tad more expensive, I just wasn't sure if it would make a difference on the temps or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ploppercon View Post

Yes, OP, if it's your first time probably do this. It's a lot easier and you're less likely to ruin your rig. smile.gif

It was my go-to option at first, have it nice and easy and do it step after step. But when I threw my self into researching everything and checking out different builds and all, I got sucked into wanting to make my own loop more and more.
Also I realized that since most sets don't come with GPU blocks, or only one, I would have to purchase some parts anyway. And making these fit to the kit would have limited my choices and possibilites (eg. if the pump couldn't support more than one CPU and one GPU block).
But I did try to keep my list as close as possible to a normal starters kit, nothing too fancy, but some handy additions like drain valves.
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post #43 of 68
nice list. i would see if you could get matching blocks.
post #44 of 68
About acetal or plexi on VGA block:
It's just the look, nothing else. Plexi is see tru and acetal is black. You can put LEDs in plexi for a light show.

But to me, either/or is a bit pointless because that part of your VGA block is facing down and you have to tilt your case to look at it.

Acetal is a bit stronger so you are less likely to strip the threads on it.
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post #45 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

About acetal or plexi on VGA block:
It's just the look, nothing else. Plexi is see tru and acetal is black. You can put LEDs in plexi for a light show.

But to me, either/or is a bit pointless because that part of your VGA block is facing down and you have to tilt your case to look at it.

Acetal is a bit stronger so you are less likely to strip the threads on it.

Ah so it is just for ascetic purposes after all then. Hm yeah I don't know if I want to spend extra cash on that, even if it's not a lot.

From your previous posts, you seem to be quite tech savvy in general^^ So what do you think about the list I've got together? All that's left to decide is basically if I want to mount the 360 up top or go for the 2x240's.
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post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKJ View Post

Ah so it is just for ascetic purposes after all then. Hm yeah I don't know if I want to spend extra cash on that, even if it's not a lot.

From your previous posts, you seem to be quite tech savvy in general^^ So what do you think about the list I've got together? All that's left to decide is basically if I want to mount the 360 up top or go for the 2x240's.

I dont have your box in front of me but for sure 2 x 240 rads would be better. 6 x 480 rads would be even better. You never have enought rads in my book.

The most important aspect of WCing is how your arrange your air flow in your rads and case. You got primo components in that list, but if your air flow is not set up properly, you could reduce your performance by more than half of it's potential.

I'll have to write up a longer post about that after work. Damn it man, you gonna get me fired! biggrin.gif
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post #47 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I dont have your box in front of me but for sure 2 x 240 rads would be better. 6 x 480 rads would be even better. You never have enought rads in my book.

The most important aspect of WCing is how your arrange your air flow in your rads and case. You got primo components in that list, but if your air flow is not set up properly, you could reduce your performance by more than half of it's potential.

I'll have to write up a longer post about that after work. Damn it man, you gonna get me fired! biggrin.gif

Well it has tons of space, just not up top where I would like my rad to sit -.-
I talked to a forum member on an other thread, and he has the same case with 2x240 sitting in it like this. It looks pretty cool and fits perfectly, it would also allow me to get a normal 30mm rad on top and go as high as 60 on the bottom.
Thing being though: My rig is on the floor = dust dust dust. And since with that setup I would want the lower rad to suck air in (if I am not mistaken xD) it would be flinging dust all over the place :/

Yeah I can see where you are coming from with this. The NZXT Phantom has some neat fans built in, but I was planning on switching those with the corsair ones. If I would mount two 240 somewhat like the guy I said before, I could even leave in 2x200mm fans op top. As it was just pointed out to me, there wouldn't be enough MB clearance. In his rig (red one) it seems to work though, so I will need to look into shifting the rad to the side to make space for the RAM.

I don't see any major flaws in his loop, the only thing that would be different with mine is that I would need 2 GPU blocks, which worries me a bit because of the right bend that would make to the bottom rad.

Ahhh don't get fired, I need you to waste your free time and money on your hobby so you can support me xD
No worries, don't do anything stupid haha. It's the time difference, here in Europe I'll be posting all day long while you guys are active during my evening^^
Edited by MrKJ - 2/11/13 at 9:51am
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post #48 of 68
Thread Starter 
A quick question to the maintenance part of a w/c system:
Distilled water+pt nuke+silver kill coil?
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post #49 of 68
I prefer distilled + pt nuke. I dont like the idea of adding different metals to the loop if I dont have too.

Okay, so you are getting the top rad (UT60) and the top fans (Scynthe GT) but in the end to be honest, there is not a huge difference between rads when it comes to performance. I mean, look at this graph again but dont zoom in. They are so close together that you can barely distinguish any difference. They all pretty much are in he same clump.

What matters the most is air flow and the quality of your air. So here's my views on all this stuff. Others mileage will vary.

First, absolutely no rad sandwiching. And by that, I mean that all your rads in your case have to be either sucking in air, or blowing out air. If you have one rad sucking, and the other blowing, the sucker is pushing it's warm exhaust into the blowing rad and that's bad. Your blowing rad becomes almost useless. So all rads sucking, or all rads blowing.

Bottom should suck and top should blow. Otherwise, you might be recycling hot exhaust back into your case again. Not good.
All cases with fans installed have the bottom sucking and the top blowing. There is a reason for this.

Filters: they are a toss up. If you don't have them, you will end up with rad fins covered with dust. This is basically a layer of insulation on your fins, not a good thing. So either loose performance from dust accumulation on your rads, or face having to strip and clean your rads frequently.
But if you do put filters on your rads, that adds restriction and your fans have to work harder and this results in more noise or reduced performance. Me, I would only use filters on the rads or case fans that are sucking air in. And if I put filters on my rads, I would prefer the rads to be in push/pull to compensate for the added restriction of the filters. I am trying the demciflex filters on my next build. I only hear good things about them.

Proper suck/blow ratio: I have seen builds with 3 large rads all sucking air into the case an only one or two punny case fans blowing air out. It's clear here that the rad fans are trying very hard to breath air into the case when only 1 or 2 fans are blowing out, so the rads are essencially starving for air, and so is the case. This is like asking you to take 3 deep breaths in and only one short breath out. Do this for 5 minutes and you will blow up like a blow fish. LOL
So keep a good balance between your fans in and fans out. You will have to play around with fan speeds and fan directions. If you have filters on, it's a good thing to have positive pressure, as in more air in than air out. But don't overdo it. Just a little positive pressure will do.

Now, I know it can be tough to implement all the rules above in a single case. But I really think these guidelines are far more important than any decision on rad/fan/block/pump you select.

In fact, if you have bottom, front, and back all fans with filters sucking in air, and only a ST30 240 in push alone up top blowing out. That would outperform ealily a UT60 in p/p sucking and a UT60 in p/p blowing.

Most guys here seem to wave off these guilines too easily and would rather argue about fin count per inch or rad thickness until the cow come home when that is not very relevent in the end if the air flow is not optimized.

Design a good airflow, and the rest is just icing on the cake.

Cheers cheers.gif
Pepe
Edited by PepeLapiu - 2/11/13 at 8:52pm
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post #50 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I prefer distilled + pt nuke. I dont like the idea of adding different metals to the loop if I dont have too.

Okay, so you are getting the top rad (UT60) and the top fans (Scynthe GT) but in the end to be honest, there is not a huge difference between rads when it comes to performance. I mean, look at this graph again but dont zoom in. They are so close together that you can barely distinguish any difference. They all pretty much are in he same clump.

What matters the most is air flow and the quality of your air. So here's my views on all this stuff. Others mileage will vary.

First, absolutely no rad sandwiching. And by that, I mean that all your rads in your case have to be either sucking in air, or blowing out air. If you have one rad sucking, and the other blowing, the sucker is pushing it's warm exhaust into the blowing rad and that's bad. Your blowing rad becomes almost useless. So all rads sucking, or all rads blowing.

Bottom should suck and top should blow. Otherwise, you might be recycling hot exhaust back into your case again. Not good.
All cases with fans installed have the bottom sucking and the top blowing. There is a reason for this.

Filters: they are a toss up. If you don't have them, you will end up with rad fins covered with dust. This is basically a layer of insulation on your fins, not a good thing. So either loose performance from dust accumulation on your rads, or face having to strip and clean your rads frequently.
But if you do put filters on your rads, that adds restriction and your fans have to work harder and this results in more noise or reduced performance. Me, I would only use filters on the rads or case fans that are sucking air in. And if I put filters on my rads, I would prefer the rads to be in push/pull to compensate for the added restriction of the filters. I am trying the demciflex filters on my next build. I only hear good things about them.

Proper suck/blow ratio: I have seen builds with 3 large rads all sucking air into the case an only one or two punny case fans blowing air out. It's clear here that the rad fans are trying very hard to breath air into the case when only 1 or 2 fans are blowing out, so the rads are essencially starving for air, and so is the case. This is like asking you to take 3 deep breaths in and only one short breath out. Do this for 5 minutes and you will blow up like a blow fish. LOL
So keep a good balance between your fans in and fans out. You will have to play around with fan speeds and fan directions. If you have filters on, it's a good thing to have positive pressure, as in more air in than air out. But don't overdo it. Just a little positive pressure will do.

Now, I know it can be tough to implement all the rules above in a single case. But I really think these guidelines are far more important than any decision on rad/fan/block/pump you select.

In fact, if you have bottom, front, and back all fans with filters sucking in air, and only a ST30 240 in push alone up top blowing out. That would outperform ealily a UT60 in p/p sucking and a UT60 in p/p blowing.

Most guys here seem to wave off these guilines too easily and would rather argue about fin count per inch or rad thickness until the cow come home when that is not very relevent in the end if the air flow is not optimized.

Design a good airflow, and the rest is just icing on the cake.

Cheers cheers.gif
Pepe

I did read your post completely, awesome as usual, I am in a hurry right now though, so I'll just post this quickly:

That makes tons of sense the whole air flow business, what worries me though is that if I have a rad at the bottom, and the top one sucking out of coures out of logical reasons, I would need that one to suck out as well. As you can see in his build, he has the two giant 200mm fans up top to support the top rad with sucking out air, and has 4 fans mounted on the bottom rad. Now the bottom rad will only get fresh air from the front 120mm fan if it is pushing out it's self.
Is that going to be a problem? Because essentially then the whole case is relying on that teeny 120 down there to bring in sufficient air for all the other fans, which would be 9 others lol
I don't see how I could make a proper airflow with both rads going the same way with this setup :/
Of course it would be easily possible to use the front and lower rad as sucking in parts, and then using the top rad with top fans and the one rear fan to exhaust air out of the casing, but this would violate the rule of both rads going the same way. Would it be an option to have bottom rad and top rad suck in, but have the 200mm fans on top suck out? Or would they just interfere with each other? :S
The two airflows I have in mind are like this:
1. Both rads sucking in air. Bottom front fan sucking in air as well. Top rear fan and 2x200mm fans on top sucking out air.
2. Bottom rad sucking air in, bottom fan sucking air in, rear fan, top 200mm fans and top rad sucking air out.

Thoughts so far?
Will edit asap!

Also really quick and ugly copy paste of the number of items I would need:

I'll be sending the list asap, could you take another look at the component quantity I am thinking off please?
Pump is unchanged x1
Res unchanged x1
CPU, GPU blocks unchanged x1/x2
Rads: Going for 2x240, one alphacool ST30 and one ST60
Compression fittings: x12 as far as I can see, I might purchase 14 or 16 just to be sure (how will this pump attach to the res, directly or via fittings?
Valves x1
Y-junction x1
Tubing x1
Fans x8 (120mm corsair ones), since I can leave in the two 200mm i would get these up top, good idea? (he has them in)

Does this come close to what you guys think?
Edited by MrKJ - 2/12/13 at 3:33am
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