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Low Power, Modest Performance Chiller Suggestions?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
I've been checking out TEC tech (hah) lately, and it has me wondering if it would be possible to implement on a smaller scale to supplement a standard water cooling loop.

My goal is to have a standard liquid system absorb most of thermal output from the CPU (and perhaps other components), dissipate that heat with a standard radiator system to bring the coolant back down ~ambient, then have the coolant enter a TEC-chilled CPU block to reach further reduced temps before entering the actual CPU block to be warmed back up again. Since this is a 24/7, I'd like to do this with using as little power as possible and hopefully avoid having to use an additional PSU. I don't really want to be paying out the nose in my electricity bill every month. I'm just a hobbyist, after all tongue.gif

I know TEC experts have a dim view of using rads in their setups, but most people using TECs are chilling their systems to where temps at full load are (significantly) lower than ambient. In that case, using a rad would simply RAISE the coolant temp closer to ambient. This I understand. But, I'm trying to use TEC to push the water in my loop down modestly below ambient - as it hits the CPU, at least - to further bring down my processor load temps. After the coolant hits the CPU, it will naturally be warmed back up to above ambient once again, and the rads can do their job.

I'm hoping to get my 4.7ghz 3770k max temps down from:

99c peak on ITB set at Max Stress, Xtreme Stress mode
~95c peak on Prime95 blend

to somewhere in the 70c-80c range. (I know those load temps are high, but this is only during benchmarking. day-to-day load temps are between 60c-80c peak)

I've seen people try to do this before and they got pretty disappointing results. IIRC, something like a somewhat-beefy TEC only producing 1 degree cooler @idle, 7 degrees cooler @load. I'm wondering if this was the result of poor implementation (ineffective block or TEC hot-loop) or if this is just a pointless endeavor in the first place.

My question to the experts is this: What's the lowest-wattage TEC I could use to achieve somewhat decent results? How much power would that TEC ACTUALLY draw irl? Is this even worth the effort?
post #2 of 28
you will most definitely have to use another PSU unless you have one thats like 1200 watts. a decent TEC will pull 400-500W of power
post #3 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzMac251 View Post

I've been checking out TEC tech (hah) lately, and it has me wondering if it would be possible to implement on a smaller scale to supplement a standard water cooling loop.

My goal is to have a standard liquid system absorb most of thermal output from the CPU (and perhaps other components), dissipate that heat with a standard radiator system to bring the coolant back down ~ambient, then have the coolant enter a TEC-chilled CPU block to reach further reduced temps before entering the actual CPU block to be warmed back up again. Since this is a 24/7, I'd like to do this with using as little power as possible and hopefully avoid having to use an additional PSU. I don't really want to be paying out the nose in my electricity bill every month. I'm just a hobbyist, after all tongue.gif

I know TEC experts have a dim view of using rads in their setups, but most people using TECs are chilling their systems to where temps at full load are (significantly) lower than ambient. In that case, using a rad would simply RAISE the coolant temp closer to ambient. This I understand. But, I'm trying to use TEC to push the water in my loop down modestly below ambient - as it hits the CPU, at least - to further bring down my processor load temps. After the coolant hits the CPU, it will naturally be warmed back up to above ambient once again, and the rads can do their job.

I'm hoping to get my 4.7ghz 3770k max temps down from:

99c peak on ITB set at Max Stress, Xtreme Stress mode
~95c peak on Prime95 blend

to somewhere in the 70c-80c range. (I know those load temps are high, but this is only during benchmarking. day-to-day load temps are between 60c-80c peak)

I've seen people try to do this before and they got pretty disappointing results. IIRC, something like a somewhat-beefy TEC only producing 1 degree cooler @idle, 7 degrees cooler @load. I'm wondering if this was the result of poor implementation (ineffective block or TEC hot-loop) or if this is just a pointless endeavor in the first place.

My question to the experts is this: What's the lowest-wattage TEC I could use to achieve somewhat decent results? How much power would that TEC ACTUALLY draw irl? Is this even worth the effort?

Instead of a chiller, what you want can be done with the Arqtik SDD setup. In fact, a user here has one on a 3770k @ 4.7ghz and 68c load.

I just installed my 3770k yesterday, but the mount has air in it and its hitting 95c @ stock even though the block is only 11c, lmao.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 3770K "Relidded" Asus Sabertooth Z77 Sapphire 7970 3GB w/H70 Push/Pull 2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 
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1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Arqtik SDD TEC Block @ 14v 655 Pump, MCP320 120.3 Top Rad, Aquacomputer 14... 38mm Delta SHE's, DD Dual bay Res, Distilled H2... 
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H70 w/ Push+Pull on GPU, cut stock HS for VRMs,... Win 7 Pro 64bit Logitech G710+ Mechanical OCZ Z850W Main, OCZ Powerstream 520ADJ Slave 
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1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Arqtik SDD TEC Block @ 14v 655 Pump, MCP320 120.3 Top Rad, Aquacomputer 14... 38mm Delta SHE's, DD Dual bay Res, Distilled H2... 
CoolingOSKeyboardPower
H70 w/ Push+Pull on GPU, cut stock HS for VRMs,... Win 7 Pro 64bit Logitech G710+ Mechanical OCZ Z850W Main, OCZ Powerstream 520ADJ Slave 
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post #4 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jost4318 View Post

you will most definitely have to use another PSU unless you have one thats like 1200 watts. a decent TEC will pull 400-500W of power

Really!? I thought those were only the big-time TECs. Aren't there lower-wattage ones available that draw significantly less?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post

Instead of a chiller, what you want can be done with the Arqtik SDD setup. In fact, a user here has one on a 3770k @ 4.7ghz and 68c load.

I just installed my 3770k yesterday, but the mount has air in it and its hitting 95c @ stock even though the block is only 11c, lmao.

So just straight up TEC cooling then? I wonder how much wattage something like that draws.
post #5 of 28
if you are putting the TEC directly on the cpu then you need one that is 350W absolute minimum but if you are using it to chill water in a watercooling loop you could get significantly lower water temps with one thats around 125-200W if you do this last option, add a little antifreeze to your loop and make sure your tubing/water blocks are insulated
Edited by jost4318 - 1/17/13 at 1:17pm
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jost4318 View Post

if you are putting the TEC directly on the cpu then you need one that is 350W absolute minimum but if you are using it to chill water in a watercooling loop you could get significantly lower water temps with one thats around 125-200W if you do this last option, add a little antifreeze to your loop and make sure your tubing/water blocks are insulated

Entirely false, unless you meant in addition to their current hardware; but that doesn't make sense cause not many OCing systems run on 350W PSUs. Those TECs on the Arqtik SSD draw at most (0°C Delta @ 12V ) 174W. And that is while moving about 300W of heat from a CPU. Not quite sure where you're getting you math from? The consumption is entirely dependent on load needing to be cooled, and voltage being applied to the TEC.

It is a very wasteful mindset of using a radiator in a loop that the TEC is cooling in hopes to be below ambient. Temp may drop across a TEC, but the amount of drop depends on the speed of your pump and the power of your TEC. If you're pump is "trickle" slow, it may drop a degree or two. If you're pump is a "gusher", it may drop 0.2°C when moving from Pre-TEC to Post-TEC. It's not enough to make a difference unless you have many high powered TECs. Adding a Rad to a cooling loop will pretty much never get below ambient unless you're TECs are cooling down the environment aswell (Unless you're cooling is powerful enough, in which case, you designed poorly).
Edited by Krow - 1/17/13 at 4:54pm
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post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
So, does the Arqtik SSD really only draw up to 174 watts? That's kind of on the high side for me, but manageable. Is that 174 watts at full load? Can it be brought down a bit? They're not selling those anymore though, right?

Sorry about the premature post. I'm posting from my phone and my finger slipped, haha.
Edited by JazzMac251 - 1/17/13 at 9:41pm
post #8 of 28
Its hard to beat the arqtik setup if you already have a water cooling loop and good radiator(s).

I haven't been able to play with my IB setup yet, but with the Asus "auto" OC (lmao) it is hitting 63c @ 4.25ghz and 1.25v. Dew point limited, block isn't even breaking a sweat yet @11c but my mount is suspect and I'm using crappy ancient AS Ceramic TIM so it shpuld be lower with that block temp. When humidity and ambient drops and I can get the block down to 7-8c it will drop more.

Expecting 65-68c @ 4.5-4.7 ghz for 24/7 use once I get to play with it.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 3770K "Relidded" Asus Sabertooth Z77 Sapphire 7970 3GB w/H70 Push/Pull 2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Arqtik SDD TEC Block @ 14v 655 Pump, MCP320 120.3 Top Rad, Aquacomputer 14... 38mm Delta SHE's, DD Dual bay Res, Distilled H2... 
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H70 w/ Push+Pull on GPU, cut stock HS for VRMs,... Win 7 Pro 64bit Logitech G710+ Mechanical OCZ Z850W Main, OCZ Powerstream 520ADJ Slave 
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Custom Mountain Mods Extended Ascension Logitech G9x w/Wide Load grip Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed 
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Intel i7 3770K "Relidded" Asus Sabertooth Z77 Sapphire 7970 3GB w/H70 Push/Pull 2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Arqtik SDD TEC Block @ 14v 655 Pump, MCP320 120.3 Top Rad, Aquacomputer 14... 38mm Delta SHE's, DD Dual bay Res, Distilled H2... 
CoolingOSKeyboardPower
H70 w/ Push+Pull on GPU, cut stock HS for VRMs,... Win 7 Pro 64bit Logitech G710+ Mechanical OCZ Z850W Main, OCZ Powerstream 520ADJ Slave 
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post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
This system looks great, but the arqtik website says the store is closed indefinitely. Is the system available elsewhere?
Edited by JazzMac251 - 1/17/13 at 9:42pm
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
I just checked out Arqtik's Cooler Calculator and got some disappointing results. Here's the info I plugged in:

CPU Info
Intel 3770K 3.5GHz
TDP: 77W
Stock V: 1.1v
Ambient Idle: 22c <--- I assume this means room temp.

Overclock Info:
OC Speed: 4725MHz
OC V: 1.456 (under load. I OC with a dynamic Vcore)
Calculated CPU Power: 180 watts
Core Temp: 91 100 99 96
Calculated CPU Avg Temp: 96.5

Current Water Cooling:
Ambient Load Temp: 28c
Water Load Temp: 35c

Prediction Tools:
SDD @ 12v
Rad: None <--- I would actually be using a 240mm rad, but the only selectable option is Arqtik's RadBox, which I would not be using.

Results W/ Arqtik Cooler:
Ambient: 39c
Water: 41c
Block: 35c
CPU: 96c

Power Information:
Cooler Power Draw: 153.6W
Heat to be Removed: 333.7W


Unless, I f'd up the numbers somewhere, looks to me like any single-TEC setup isn't really going to beat my current setup by much. I'm guessing that even with a dual-rad, I won't see temps but -3, -5 lower than what I currently have, but at the added cost of 154 more watts used. That's somewhat disappointing. .
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