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[EuroGamer]Playstation 4 specifications unmasked - Page 15

post #141 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcguru000 View Post

Can't wait to play on the xbox 4 and ps720...

Its gonna be funny if a year from now we find out MS an Sony worked together to develop both consoles ... it would make sense if they did from a software development standpoint because it would make for easier porting of games... perhaps they wouldn't even need to be "ported" ...


Hahahaa... if theycould do that we would have some amazing looking games on consoles and of gaming would cease to exist. Play on either console but still have to be ported pc... none one would even bother

This opinion coming from a software developer and pc game enthusiast. I have ps3 that hasn't been touched in literally years.
post #142 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

Jaguar clocked in at 1.6Ghz

Seriously? AMD themselves said Jaguar is aimed at ultraportables like tablets and netbooks.

You have to consider the fact that consoles are low profile, and need hardware that won't draw a ton of power and produce and a lot of heat. With a weaker CPU they can use smaller and quieter cooling.
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post #143 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr357 View Post

You have to consider the fact that consoles are low profile, and need hardware that won't draw a ton of power and produce and a lot of heat. With a weaker CPU they can use smaller and quieter cooling.

Noise was definitely an issue with the current generation's early models; my 360 sounds like it's bringing a storm when the disc drive is running and still sounds like a wind blower even when it's not. But is it really so hard to cool something like a mobile i7 Ivy and a decent mobile GPU? Even slim laptops can pull it off, surely it must be easier with a somewhat larger form factor.

I don't think it's the cooling or size. I think they're just trying to cut costs as much as they can. Maybe that will reflect well on consume prices but I'm worried that weak hardware will result in consoles holding back games (and by extension the PC). I won't rant because I'm tired as hell and much of this post is probably incomprehensible as it is.
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post #144 of 332
I can imagine the next PlayStation looking like the current generation Apple TV for some reason
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post #145 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

At the same time PC had 8800GTX which was a lot faster the 7800GTX 256MB. Add SLI more RAM and the PC was 3-4x faster when console launched. This was a expensive unit too not 299.99$.

Yeah PC had 8800GTX which was like four times faster than even the 7950 GX2 but most games were coded like I said low-level for console first than ported high-level to PC so anything developed now for consoles will directly affect how games will look in the future for us PC gamers.

All that 4 times the performance does not really matter to consoles since they are capped anyways to 24 and 30 frames (or maybe they'll lift it to 60 frames, or 30 frames each side for 3D) and many of the PC games out a few years ago didn't even harness half of what the 8800GTX had to offer if games were coded for it fully optimized.

That's why I still see console specifications as having a direct impact on what our PC games will look like but honestly even an upgrade to an 8800GTX will be more than enough for just some decent 1080p titles. Obviously we will have to move to 4K though and that's where something like a 4870 or a 5850 can come in. Anything above that is way overpowered especially when you think about how low-level development on console can show that a console game optimized specifically 5850 will be able to do much more than your average 5850 was ever able to.

Just like how the PS3 7800GTX and Xbox X1800XTX was and still IS able to do a lot more than your average HD 2900 XT or your average 7900 GTX.

This is part of the reason why I find it's pointless to compare performance with a console to something like a PC since when it comes to games, most developers will develop for console anyways and then port.
Edited by hellojustinr - 1/21/13 at 9:58am
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post #146 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojustinr View Post

to.

Just like how the PS3 7800GTX and Xbox X1800XTX was and still IS able to do a lot more than your average HD 4870 or your average 280 GTX.

Fixed
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post #147 of 332
How exactly are consoles holding PC gaming back?

Does graphics really mean that much to some people? All the high res PC games I've played recently are boring to look at, despite their high res graphics. Ill be brutally honest and say a supposedly crappy console game like Final Fantasy XIII has better art direction than any recent PC game, regardless of the resolution (For instance the Entrance at Eden Hall) Sure it's low res, but at least it gives me an interesting vista to look at, instead of incredibly detailed tunnels and concrete bunkers, or in Crysis case, palm trees and sand. I didn't pay $60 and $1,200 on parts to look at some freaking water and some volumetric clouds.

On the flipside, the best PC games are one that have interesting mechanics and stellar gameplay (Portal, Diablo 2, Team Fortress 2, Starcraft1/2, Command and Conquer, hell even WoW for the 3 hours that I played it, the list goes on.)

So ill never understand why people scream that Consoles are "holding" PC's back because they don't provide enough high resolution graphics, and not a word is uttered about gameplay.

Utter nonsense.

And to wide eyed tech newbies, who are just getting into PC's and salivating over high powered parts, a console does not have to have equivalent power to play the same games. They can be less than half as powerful to play the same games. That's the entire point, having a scalpel vs. a hammer to cut the videogame pie. Geddit? No API's equal faster instructions. It is not hard to figure out.
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post #148 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil~ View Post

How exactly are consoles holding PC gaming back?

Does graphics really mean that much to some people? All the high res PC games I've played recently are boring to look at, despite their high res graphics. Ill be brutally honest and say a supposedly crappy console game like Final Fantasy XIII has better art direction than any recent PC game, regardless of the resolution (For instance the Entrance at Eden Hall) Sure it's low res, but at least it gives me an interesting vista to look at, instead of incredibly detailed tunnels and concrete bunkers, or in Crysis case, palm trees and sand. I didn't pay $60 and $1,200 on parts to look at some freaking water and some volumetric clouds.

On the flipside, the best PC games are one that have interesting mechanics and stellar gameplay (Portal, Diablo 2, Team Fortress 2, Starcraft1/2, Command and Conquer, hell even WoW for the 3 hours that I played it, the list goes on.)

So ill never understand why people scream that Consoles are "holding" PC's back because they don't provide enough high resolution graphics, and not a word is uttered about gameplay.

Utter nonsense.

And to wide eyed tech newbies, who are just getting into PC's and salivating over high powered parts, a console does not have to have equivalent power to play the same games. They can be less than half as powerful to play the same games. That's the entire point, having a scalpel vs. a hammer to cut the videogame pie. Geddit? No API's equal faster instructions. It is not hard to figure out.

I'm more forgiving of console ports than many other people (at least I think so), but consoles are definitely holding PCs back.

The beauty of the PC as a platform is that it is open, configurable, tweakable, and flexible. If your PC has less memory bandwidth, turn this setting down. If your PC has a weaker processor, turn this setting down but not this one. If you want to use a keyboard/mouse or a controller, you have the option. If you have a large or small monitor, you can scale the engine's internal resolution to match. If you want to output 2-channel or 5.1-channel sound, you can change it.

Consoles are utterly closed, and completely locked. While that is perfect for getting the exact same experience in as many different hands as possible, when console games are ported to PCs and the options for configurations are taken away, it can be frustrating. PC players have historically been able to change things to make their experience differently, but the worst console ports seem like the developers are saying "no, you're wrong. I'm going to take configuration choices out of your hands."

I really don't care about ports that much (Dark Souls on PC is still fun in my opinion), but I can understand the frustration.

Besides, talking specifically about graphics, why in the world should it be forgiven when developers skip putting in a tiny amount of work to make graphics adjustable? Sure, graphics don't matter all that much to gameplay, but if you can have the exact same gaming experience with better graphics, why wouldn't you? You're kidding yourself if you say that you would ever intentionally pick a game with worse graphics (lower polygon count models, worse textures, etc), if literally every single other gameplay element were the same.
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post #149 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBrogbo View Post

I'm more forgiving of console ports than many other people (at least I think so), but consoles are definitely holding PCs back.

The beauty of the PC as a platform is that it is open, configurable, tweakable, and flexible. If your PC has less memory bandwidth, turn this setting down. If your PC has a weaker processor, turn this setting down but not this one. If you want to use a keyboard/mouse or a controller, you have the option. If you have a large or small monitor, you can scale the engine's internal resolution to match. If you want to output 2-channel or 5.1-channel sound, you can change it.

Consoles are utterly closed, and completely locked. While that is perfect for getting the exact same experience in as many different hands as possible, when console games are ported to PCs and the options for configurations are taken away, it can be frustrating. PC players have historically been able to change things to make their experience differently, but the worst console ports seem like the developers are saying "no, you're wrong. I'm going to take configuration choices out of your hands."

I really don't care about ports that much (Dark Souls on PC is still fun in my opinion), but I can understand the frustration.

Besides, talking specifically about graphics, why in the world should it be forgiven when developers skip putting in a tiny amount of work to make graphics adjustable? Sure, graphics don't matter all that much to gameplay, but if you can have the exact same gaming experience with better graphics, why wouldn't you? You're kidding yourself if you say that you would ever intentionally pick a game with worse graphics (lower polygon count models, worse textures, etc), if literally every single other gameplay element were the same.

I can understand this.

My point is that yes the PC is more flexible. But that has never had anything to do with my enjoyment of a game.

A game is meant for entertainment. Do I want to change settings constantly to enjoy a game? No, I don't, and I doubt anyone would, unless they are benching, which is not the same as playing a game.

The argument boils down to what I was talking about earlier, I can see the merits of the argument if games that I see being made for PC had great layouts. But all the really good, addictive, signature games on PC, as well as the biggest selling ones solely for PC, are not games that push graphical quality. And also no one really plays an FPS game for the graphics, they play it for the mechanics. That's why games such as BF3 and Modern Warfare make so much money.

I agree I wish it had changeable settings, but that's just the devs deciding it's not worth the time to retrofit in an option for better graphics.

But that in itself is not holding pc gaming back, if consoles where AS powerful as a current PC, they would be absolutely no need for a PC to game, as a console would produce far better looking games using the same hardware.

Would you honestly use a PC for gaming instead of console if you could get better looking games on the console, more exclusives, far less bugs, and much better compatibility? Think about it. If that were true, having the ability to "adjust" your settings to a lower level becomes silly. A console that has current level hardware would only lose to a PC in two clear cut areas, the ability to mod/multitask and the ability to pirate.
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post #150 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil~ View Post

I can understand this.

My point is that yes the PC is more flexible. But that has never had anything to do with my enjoyment of a game.

A game is meant for entertainment. Do I want to change settings constantly to enjoy a game? No, I don't, and I doubt anyone would, unless they are benching, which is not the same as playing a game.

The argument boils down to what I was talking about earlier, I can see the merits of the argument if games that I see being made for PC had great layouts. But all the really good, addictive, signature games on PC, as well as the biggest selling ones solely for PC, are not games that push graphical quality. And also no one really plays an FPS game for the graphics, they play it for the mechanics. That's why games such as BF3 and Modern Warfare make so much money.

I agree I wish it had changeable settings, but that's just the devs deciding it's not worth the time to retrofit in an option for better graphics.

But that in itself is not holding pc gaming back, if consoles where AS powerful as a current PC, they would be absolutely no need for a PC to game, as a console would produce far better looking games using the same hardware.

Would you honestly use a PC for gaming instead of console if you could get better looking games on the console, more exclusives, far less bugs, and much better compatibility? Think about it. If that were true, having the ability to "adjust" your settings to a lower level becomes silly. A console that has current level hardware would only lose to a PC in two clear cut areas, the ability to mod/multitask and the ability to pirate.
No I would not use a PC for gaming if consoles were that way and still affordable.

The thing is, that's not possible. Not even remotely possible. What IS possible, though, is for devs to program in the ability for graphics options from the get-go. I doubt it would add that much development cost or time.

I'm excited about these proposed specs though, since they'd be using the same instruction set as PCs, so allowing for PCs to change up the experience somewhat should be a lot easier.
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