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post #11 of 25
Mind you, the Peltier forum guys and the Cooling experiments forum guys might be able to help you better than us. They probably have encountered obstacles similar to yours.

Peltier forum:
http://www.overclock.net/f/62/peltiers-tec

Coolung experiments forum:
http://www.overclock.net/f/134/cooling-experiments
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post #12 of 25
The MCP655 is is medium flow and minor head-pressure. The MCP355 is good flow and higher head-pressure. With that said, you could do three MCP355 in the XSPC triple top that boosts flow output for the GPUs and then a dual pump in serial XSPC top for the CPU. So, about 5 or even 6 pumps would put you in the right zone. like others have mentioned, check out Martin's work over at his lab website.

http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-Triple-Acrylic-Top-for-Laing-DDC_25432.html

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post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
Five or six pumps? Wow. That's a bit more, in terms of both complexity and cost, than what I want to get into, if avoidable.

I'm looking at this in a couple of other ways, although not sure whether this is feasible.

First, maybe I can simply sacrifice chiller efficiency by running a pump that outputs flow at a rate lower than the labeled minimum for the chiller. The chiller's rating is presumably based on requirements for chilling large volumes of water (chilling tens of gallons of water in an aquarium system) rather than for the relatively small volume of water in a WC loop. Perhaps the smaller volume involved for a PC loop doesn't require the same degree of efficiency as cooling the water in a large tank. As long as going below the labeled minimum doesn't pose a threat of mechanical or electrical damage to the chiller, maybe it's not necessary to strictly adhere to the recommended flow rate range.

Second, I have indeed been looking at Martin's site, which is what prompted my questions asking for help choosing a pump in the first place:

In the bit-tech article that got me thinking about using a chiller in the first place, a setup was described in which an MCP655 (fitted with an EK D5 X-Top) was used for its ability to reach the chiller's minimum flow rate of 5.3 gallons per minute (1200 liters per hour). Their loop included a Swiftech Apogee XT block on the CPU and an XSPC Razor block on the GPU (which is also a double-GPU card, as in my case). They got satisfactory cooling results, despite the fact that the restriction from their CPU block (and probably from their GPU block as well) at 5 gpm must have been pretty high -- assuming they actually reached a flow rate anywhere near 5 gpm, of course. And they didn't aim for sub-ambient temps from their chiller.

I think the main differences between their setup and the one I am planning are that
- the chiller I will use has a higher recommended minimum flow rate (8 gpm vs 5 gpm)
- I am probably going to have 10-15 feet of additional tubing running to a second room while their chiller and pump were immediately adjacent to the waterblocks (but I would gladly eliminate this extra tubing if the chiller and the pump turn out to be quiet enough), and
- I would be willing to aim for sub-ambient temps.

Since their setup worked despite the predicted restrictiveness of their loop relative to their pump's capacity at that high flow rate of 5 gpm, I'm wondering whether I could still get a system to work using an MCP655-type pump if I am willing to sacrifice a little of the chiller's efficiency by using a pump that doesn't meet the chiller's minimum flow rate.

(Sorry for the dissertation. redface.gif )
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Here are flow curves from Skinneelabs' tests for the pump they used for the bit-tech article.

Skinnee didn't test out to 5 gpm, but we can kind of extrapolate out to where the pressure might have fallen on their curve at the pump's highest setting: probably in the general vicinity of 1 PSI or just below.

When you put that together with the pressure drops that Martin measured for the CPU block alone, already at 20 PSI by 2.0 gpm and rapidly rising, the restriction from the CPU block should have overwhelmed the pump they used in the bit-tech experiment long before the pump reached even close to 5 gpm flow -- in theory. Yet they still got adequate cooling.

So there must be some other factors that the theory doesn't take into account.

Or am I missing something?
post #15 of 25
Crap! I had a long winded reply and I click the wrong key, lost it all.
Not retyping everything twice tonight. I'll try again tomorrow. frown.gif
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post #16 of 25
8GPM is nuts. There simply isn't a water cooling pump we commonly know and use that is capable of that.

Even the mighty RD-30 at full 24V is incapable as it's max flow rate with zero restriction is around 6GPM
IwakiRD30PQ-24v.png

Putting multiple pumps in series does nothing to raise the maximum flow rate, so you really need to find some sort of industrial pump with a max flow spec in the 15GPM range. You want to operate pumps somewhere between zero and max flow, and you would need something HUGE.

The pressure drop at those flow rates must also be intense, and honestly I think beyond what our little blocks and radiators are capable of handling. I have heard of user's destroying their radiators using household water pressure. While they might handle 20PSI, I bet you start to permanently bulge and damage parts by 40PSI.

As a guess, the CPU370 hit nearly 19PSI pressure drop at 5GPM, 8GPM is probably going to be something like 40PSI because of the curve.

You probably nee a pump capable of at least 60PSI at 8GPM which none of the Iwaki pumps could do.
http://iwakiamerica.com/Literature/MD_WMD/MDWMDFamilyCurve.pdf

I think to make it work you would need to go extreme on low restriction parts and extreme on the pump, still not sure it would work.

In the end, I guess I'm questioning the 8 GPM. You sure there wasn't a unit error there somewhere?
    
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post #17 of 25
Why does he need 480 gph? His chiller needs this? I don't get it
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post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

In the end, I guess I'm questioning the 8 GPM. You sure there wasn't a unit error there somewhere?

Believe me, I wish it were a mistake. I've checked and rechecked, but the minimum flow is 480 gallons per hour.
I guess in the aquarium world this isn't such an astronomical figure.

What I'll do is just get one of the pumps they use for aquariums and see whether running with a flow closer to 5 gpm than to 8 gpm still allows me to get a respectable level of chilling.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xNiNELiVES View Post

Why does he need 480 gph? His chiller needs this? I don't get it

Yes, as I explained upthread, the chiller's minimum flow is labeled at 8 gpm.
One of the reasons I started the thread was to ask whether anyone knows what would happen if I were to run the chiller with a flow that is lower than the labeled minimum.
post #20 of 25
Okay, turns out my idea would not work anyway.

The manufacturer of the chiller, doesnt he have a pump he can suggest?
And arent there any smalled chilkers yoj can get? Maybe skmething with a minimum of 4 GPM, we could prolly make that work..
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