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What really should be the #1 thing on AMD's radar, the DX9 artifacts! - Page 7

post #61 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttergame View Post

now thats a word.
could you be a bit more precise? A few DX9 games work fine for me as well but some are bugged.

ME3, Skyrim, Dishonored, Starcraft II. All of which have been reported to have this issue.

lucky i guess.
Edited by The Mac - 1/22/13 at 7:51pm
post #62 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mac View Post

ME3, Skyrim, Dishonored, Starcraft II. All of which have been reported to have this issue.

lucky i guess.

I don't know if Skyrim or ME3 flickers but in Dishonored i saw flickering. Did you play it before 12.11(i dont know if 12.11 still flickers in that game)? Starcraft 2 flickers for me, but very very rare you may overlook it, it also seems to depend on which maps you're playing. Guess when you have Ohana on Veto you won't see it happening much. For example i didn't see any flickering happening in Starcraft 2 since the release of 13.1 although i play around 1-3 games each day.
But becaue 13.1 and 12.11 is the same im sure it's still there it's just that rare..
However the rankings where your name is listed with all the other peoples in your division seem to flicker every 5-10 Minutes for me.
But you have to pay close attention. This makes me believe even harder that this is a driver issue because it seems like it's just that screen of the menu. It seems like it has issues with sizing it correctly or smth like that. What resolution do you use?
Edited by Stuttergame - 1/23/13 at 1:43am
post #63 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thracks View Post

My name is Robert Hallock (@thracks). I am AMD's product marketing manager for enthusiast desktop graphics. My product portfolio is Eyefinity, CrossFire and any desktop GPU that's a 7750 or faster. smile.gif

And yes, I'm a huge gamer.

At this point - My name is Miroslav Kocúr, I work as a small gear in big IT company you surely know. My job is to track down server problems, and propose solutions. My skills are also applicable to hardware and software diagnostics of any kind.

At this point I can only confirm that problem is software based, related to games made for DirectX 9.0c, while specifically related to completely new GCN architecture. The "Flickering" issue is caused by crappy game and DX code, which in pre-GCN drivers was fixed at driver level. Now with new architecture dx library needs new fixes...

To be correct, my technical statements towards GCN and flickering issues are based on game and driver testing under different settings, reading a lot of available documentation from position of observer. I dont use any diagnostic tools.

And yes, I am gamer too, owner of HD 7970 who wants to see his invested money to work fine smile.gif

At this point:
DX9.0c flickering issue was observed in Skyrim, Civilization 4, Witcher 2 EE and World of Tanks.

Was NOT observed in:
DeusEx: Human Revolution (DX 11), Assassins Creed 1 (DX10), TES: Morrowind (DX8), TES: Oblivion (DX9.0b).


- Different AMD card which is using non-GCN does not have this problem
- Different drivers cause different behaviour of the issue
- Different frequencies does not change behaviour of the issue

These three things combined, with fact that issue was observed only in DX9.0c games points at driver and directX.

Flickering issues which may appear in DX10 or DX11 looks completely different. They usually copy some surfaces = such as road, or floor. DX9 flickering is specific that it looks like a black or white flicker across multiple fields on screen.

Currently there are those problems which I have sucesfully identified:

- Black flickering - looks like a problem with alpha blending. Strongly supressed in newer drivers, but still present. Related to DX9.0c
- White flickering - may contain corrupted textures. Less ocurrence as the black flickering, not fixed yet. Related to DX9.0c
- Z-Fighting issue - may be present in DX10 and later games as flickering floor and surfaces. Can reproduce in Skyrim and World of tanks.
- Windows GUI corruption on refresh rate higher than 60Hz. (cannot reproduce)
- Catalyst window goes black when clicking on video setting
- Textures which are becoming transparent may blink or flash - reproducable in World of Tanks on "Batte start". Previously present in Witcher 2 on "buff" icons.

Edit: And here are HW issues that have been identified
- HD 79x0 may whine when displaying extremely high FPS (more than 1000). Reproducable in Witcher 2 on initial animation, or with 3dmark 2003. Workaround = Vsync
- Image corruption on multimonitor settings - related to Display port to HDMI adapters.
- System lockups, with buzzing sound - minor incompatibility with some mainboards. AFAIK solved with new BIOS for those mainboards.

All the tests I do are on my default configuration which tries to be close to mainstream users.

When I say "Default configuration" it means
Single Gigabyte HD 7970oc with latest bios with factory overclocking to 1000Mhz
Single Samsung PX2370 @ 1920x1080p 60Hz connected via DVI-D
CCC on factory defaults with those exceptions:
Vsync ON
Triple buffering ON
Power setting +20 percent
Edited by Offler - 1/24/13 at 12:26am
post #64 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offler View Post

At this point - My name is Miroslav Kocúr, I work as a small gear in big IT company you surely know. My job is to track down server problems, and propose solutions. My skills are also applicable to hardware and software diagnostics of any kind.

At this point I can only confirm that problem is software based, related to games made for DirectX 9.0c, while specifically related to completely new GCN architecture. The "Flickering" issue is caused by crappy game and DX code, which in pre-GCN drivers was fixed at driver level. Now with new architecture dx library needs new fixes...

To be correct, my technical statements towards GCN and flickering issues are based on game and driver testing under different settings, reading a lot of available documentation from position of observer. I dont use any diagnostic tools.

And yes, I am gamer too, owner of HD 7970 who wants to see his invested money to work fine smile.gif

At this point:
DX9.0c flickering issue was observed in Skyrim, Civilization 4, Witcher 2 EE and World of Tanks.

Was NOT observed in:
DeusEx: Human Revolution, Assassins Creed 1, TES: Morrowind, TES: Oblivion.


- Different AMD card which is using non-GCN does not have this problem
- Different drivers cause different behaviour of the issue
- Different frequencies does not change behaviour of the issue

These three things combined, with fact that issue was observed only in DX9.0c games points at driver and directX.

Flickering issues which may appear in DX10 or DX11 looks completely different. They usually copy some surfaces = such as road, or floor. DX9 flickering is specific that it looks like a black or white flicker across multiple fields on screen.

Currently there are those problems which I have sucesfully identified:

- Black flickering - looks like a problem with alpha blending. Strongly supressed in newer drivers, but still present. Related to DX9.0c
- White flickering - may contain corrupted textures. Less ocurrence as the black flickering, not fixed yet. Related to DX9.0c
- Z-Fighting issue - may be present in DX10 and later games as flickering floor and surfaces. Can reproduce in Skyrim and World of tanks.
- Windows GUI corruption on refresh rate higher than 60Hz. (cannot reproduce)
- Catalyst window goes black when clicking on video setting
- Textures which are becoming transparent may blink or flash - reproducable in World of Tanks on "Batte start". Previously present in Witcher 2 on "buff" icons.


Good post, thanks. I get some of these issues in DOTA2 and CS:GO. Certain maps are worse than others.
post #65 of 260
Update to White flickering in skyrim:

Yesterday i found another flickerspot in Ivarstead which generates specifically this kind of flickering. When I enabled Supersampling, while game was set atleast to AA 2x the flickering was gone.

this does not make any sense to me. Usually forcing settings from catalyst to game was making trouble. Any other AA mode, or AA disabled cause white flickering.

Edit:
I tried to override game settings. AA in game was disabled, and I enabled it in catalyst - flickering was present, regardless if supersampling was enabled.
It behaves like that disabled AA in game leads to some kind of defaults such as Multisampling at 0x which are forced by the drivers and not set/used by the game.

For now:
Set catalyst to supersampling and set antialiasing level in skyrim.

ok. this is the key:

Supersampling + AA 2x or set in game = no flickering

Edit2:
- The workaround for now solves "battle starts" flashing in Wot
- White flicker in Skyrim
- flicker in Witcher 2

May wary depending on fullscreen.
Edited by Offler - 1/23/13 at 9:42am
post #66 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by liftthesky View Post

Good post, thanks. I get some of these issues in DOTA2 and CS:GO. Certain maps are worse than others.

I only have issues where explorer crashes in the back ground running crossfire causing my screen to flicker for a second, then I'm back in-game. Continues til I restart and disabled crossfire to play CS:Go
    
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post #67 of 260
Thread Starter 
Thats odd, supersampling just made things worse for me in Fallout New Vegas.
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post #68 of 260
This is exact settings I use. Previously i was bit unclear:

1. Set CCC to factory defaults.
2. in 3d settings keep Antialiasing Mode on "use application settings"
3. Set Anti-aliasing method to "supersampling"
4. Start game/engine. Ingame set AA to 2x or more.

As I remember, Fallout: New Vegas uses same engine as Oblivion. And there was not possible to use AA and HDR lightning. Dont know how they fixed it there. Please double check.
post #69 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Offler View Post

At this point - My name is Miroslav Kocúr, I work as a small gear in big IT company you surely know. My job is to track down server problems, and propose solutions. My skills are also applicable to hardware and software diagnostics of any kind.

At this point I can only confirm that problem is software based, related to games made for DirectX 9.0c, while specifically related to completely new GCN architecture. The "Flickering" issue is caused by crappy game and DX code, which in pre-GCN drivers was fixed at driver level. Now with new architecture dx library needs new fixes...

To be correct, my technical statements towards GCN and flickering issues are based on game and driver testing under different settings, reading a lot of available documentation from position of observer. I dont use any diagnostic tools.

And yes, I am gamer too, owner of HD 7970 who wants to see his invested money to work fine smile.gif

At this point:
DX9.0c flickering issue was observed in Skyrim, Civilization 4, Witcher 2 EE and World of Tanks.

Was NOT observed in:
DeusEx: Human Revolution, Assassins Creed 1, TES: Morrowind, TES: Oblivion.


- Different AMD card which is using non-GCN does not have this problem
- Different drivers cause different behaviour of the issue
- Different frequencies does not change behaviour of the issue

These three things combined, with fact that issue was observed only in DX9.0c games points at driver and directX.

Flickering issues which may appear in DX10 or DX11 looks completely different. They usually copy some surfaces = such as road, or floor. DX9 flickering is specific that it looks like a black or white flicker across multiple fields on screen.

Currently there are those problems which I have sucesfully identified:

- Black flickering - looks like a problem with alpha blending. Strongly supressed in newer drivers, but still present. Related to DX9.0c
- White flickering - may contain corrupted textures. Less ocurrence as the black flickering, not fixed yet. Related to DX9.0c
- Z-Fighting issue - may be present in DX10 and later games as flickering floor and surfaces. Can reproduce in Skyrim and World of tanks.
- Windows GUI corruption on refresh rate higher than 60Hz. (cannot reproduce)
- Catalyst window goes black when clicking on video setting
- Textures which are becoming transparent may blink or flash - reproducable in World of Tanks on "Batte start". Previously present in Witcher 2 on "buff" icons.

I was thinking this was the case. Seems that 120hz guys have more of these issues. Though my friend with windows 8 has corruption at 60hz. I mostly have corruption on windows 8 as well. Windows 7 only had small static line down middle of the screen sometimes I would forget about it because it wasn't that visible.
 
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post #70 of 260
Might be related to fact that HD 7970 cards are whinning a bit on extremely high framerates.

Also I updated the "large" message. Added some more info into it.
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