Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [PA] Data is cheaper to transmit, so why is Verizon more expensive?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[PA] Data is cheaper to transmit, so why is Verizon more expensive? - Page 15

post #141 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

How is wireless not a good substitute over cable? If it is deployed properly you can have the same latency as cable, and actually speeds that rival it in other situations. Frankly it comes down to how the service is implemented, so to just say that Wireless isn't a good substitute is a bit bull-headed......

Heck, I can roll out a 1.25Gbps, yes with a G, wireless connection with ultra low latency on a point to point bases. In many situations this is FAR cheaper for a business to do than to pay for physical infrastructure to be put in.
That's the thing... where can general consumers get low-latency, reliable, high bandwidth wireless priced equivalent to cable/DSL? We aren't talking about a custom deployment with directional/beam-forming MIMO set up with LoS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Personally, I define "luxury" as anything OTHER than what is needed to achieve the elements on the first 2 levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs pyramid.
That's your definition.... the economic definition is different.

Actually, your definition easily falls apart....
Why did you subjectively include both the first and second level? Why not only the first level?
Is eating un-rotten, clean, cooked food a luxuary? No? But it would be consider a luxury to people who can only get rotten old food.
A definition that is not universal or account for corner cases is not a very good definition.

Again, luxury is relative. It is a good/service which has increased consumption as relative incomes rises. This is the definition.
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #142 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That's the thing... where can general consumers get low-latency, reliable, high bandwidth wireless priced equivalent to cable/DSL? We aren't talking about a custom deployment with directional/beam-forming MIMO set up with LoS

Why not? This is precisely the tech we deploy, as it provides low latency, high performance service out to ~20 miles or so.

Although the better option for Wireless, but the FCC doesn't allow, would be "DOCSIS Over The Air" down around 500Mhz. If you deployed the up and coming DOCSIS 4.0, you could easily push ~60Mbps to any home, Non-LOS, within ~30 miles of the broadcast. Oh but to dream....but to dream.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

There have been initiatives by towns and even cities to create their own, private internet infrastructure, separate from that of the corporations. Out of fear these mega corporations sued these initiatives and or bribed politicians to stop or prevent them. These greedy corporations were given millions in subsidies to upgrade and improve their infrastructure but a fourth yacht and other bonuses were far too appealing.

Don't buy their product? You paid for them with your tax but never got the product. That is the definition of fraud and theft. Now back to those who say they can charge whatever they want.

They ran into two big issues...... a lawsuit, generally, wasn't one.

Issue 1: The FCC not allowing them to operate in the optimal spectrum to do it properly.

Issue 2: Lobbyists going to work against them and more or less paying off their Representatives to cut off funding.

An example of this is here in Oregon. The state actually went out and built about 128 towers throughout the entire state. The state was going to have companies like mine go on them and push our services out further, we were going to get broadband to almost all of Oregon. Then suddenly it wasn't such a "good" idea, and funding was pulled overnight.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 1/24/13 at 8:33pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
Reply
post #143 of 224
Im still calling, GREED, on this one!
post #144 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Why not? This is precisely the tech we deploy, as it provides low latency, high performance service out to ~20 miles or so.

Although the better option for Wireless, but the FCC doesn't allow, would be "DOCSIS Over The Air" down around 500Mhz. If you deployed the up and coming DOCSIS 4.0, you could easily push ~60Mbps to any home, Non-LOS, within ~30 miles of the broadcast. Oh but to dream....but to dream.
..because it is not commonly available to compete with cable?

(Got any more info on your deployments? What's the packet loss rate? Beam-forming?)
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #145 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

..because it is not commonly available to compete with cable?

(Got any more info on your deployments? What's the packet loss rate? Beam-forming?)

I could show you traffic, and all statistics related to it, from our network and that of say a Charter connection, and you would be EXTREMELY hard pressed to know which was which. Generally ours looks a little cleaner, as we are a bit picky with performance.

A large reason for this is our overall structure, we aren't pushing hundred mile+ wireless back-hauls. Our longest wireless back-haul is 34 miles before hitting hardware, most are under 20 miles, then at that point they hit our Fiber and go out from there. We then have on our heaviest traffic points, going back to our main office Gigabit wireless connections. I want to say our furthest out customer might see ~10ms to the Core where it hands off to the Fiber.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 1/24/13 at 8:47pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
Reply
post #146 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I could show you traffic, and all statistics related to it, from our network and that of say a Charter connection, and you would be EXTREMELY hard pressed to know which was which. Generally ours looks a little cleaner, as we are a bit picky with performance.

A large reason for this is our overall structure, we aren't pushing hundred mile+ wireless back-hauls. Our longest wireless back-haul is 34 miles before hitting hardware, most are under 20 miles, then at that point they hit our Fiber and go out from there. We then have on our heaviest traffic points, going back to our main office Gigabit wireless connections. I want to say our furthest out customer might see ~10ms to the Core where it hands off to the Fiber.
These are custom installations for specific customers/businesses/clients paying for the optimized network or these more general consumer deployments?
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #147 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

..because it is not commonly available to compete with cable?

(Got any more info on your deployments? What's the packet loss rate? Beam-forming?)

I feel that despite the significantly worse performance of wireless internet access it may come to superseed landline cable connections for the average consumer simply because the infrastructure is much cheaper and easier to maintain. Many customers just want a working internet connection and are often happy enough with the internet performance on their phones for web browsing and some video streaming.
This method of internet access is already popular in rural communities in the United States.
If the prices come down enough we can expect it to spread to more densely populated areas.
post #148 of 224
So I skimmed / read through all previous posts. At first I was thinking, yeah screw those guys, but then I thought it's really hard to put a true value on the service. My house has 3 smart phones and a tablet on a Verizon plan that's something like $240 a month. The smart phones are grandfathered unlimited data but even as a family I don't think we even top 2GB/month. I remember my first cell phone in the late 90s was something like $20/month with no texting and some limit on minutes (no data plan obviously). I've had only Verizon since then and I can't think of a single time I couldn't make or receive a call. I'm not entirely sure the cost has outgrown the demand for the service in our day-to-day lives. Our attachment has grown exponentially into a 24/7 demand. With that demand, I'm really not upset about that cost. If I were really going to complain about something, I'd have to pick my television service. My day-to-day interaction with television service is on a steep decline and the cost is on a steep incline.

All this being said, there are many options with cell service. A lot of the discount no contract providers provide perfectly adequate cellular service. I've got WiFi access probably 75% of my waking life, do I really NEED a data plan? Probably not. Many people (if they would just stop signing the 2 year contracts attached to the subsidized iPhone lure) could easily find some savings in their monthly expenses. I'm not sure what is 'fair' for Verizon to charge. They've also got to sit on a bunch of cash in case a Sandy or Katrina happens. I guess it just comes down to your personal income and if you are wisely spending it. You've got to look at your finances and make that decision yourself.
Never finished
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 4.0GHz Foxconn Bloodrage 2xEVGA GTX480 [SLI] ["The Mod"] [3x2GB] G-Skill Perfect Storm (PC3 16000) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
2x X25-M G2 80GB/300GB VR/2x1TB 7200.12 (RAID1) CORSAIR H100 Windows 7 HP 64-bit Dell U3011 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Corsair HX1000 Rosewill Blackhawk-Ultra Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
Never finished
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 D0 4.0GHz Foxconn Bloodrage 2xEVGA GTX480 [SLI] ["The Mod"] [3x2GB] G-Skill Perfect Storm (PC3 16000) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
2x X25-M G2 80GB/300GB VR/2x1TB 7200.12 (RAID1) CORSAIR H100 Windows 7 HP 64-bit Dell U3011 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G15 Corsair HX1000 Rosewill Blackhawk-Ultra Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
post #149 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvantheDugtrio View Post

I feel that despite the significantly worse performance of wireless internet access it may come to superseed landline cable connections for the average consumer simply because the infrastructure is much cheaper and easier to maintain. Many customers just want a working internet connection and are often happy enough with the internet performance on their phones for web browsing and some video streaming.
This method of internet access is already popular in rural communities in the United States.
If the prices come down enough we can expect it to spread to more densely populated areas.

Wireless is game changer in 3rd world countries with no existing infrastructure.

I'm not sure if wireless can keep up with demands in cities though especially with the current state of the spectrum licensing.
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #150 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayleyne View Post

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but smart phones and home itnernet connections are not required for surviving day to day life, I've done it when i was poor and MANY people around the world live completly internet and smartphone free, These things are luxury items, They can charge as they see fit imo

Many people also live without food, water, electricity, ect. These things are luxuries. rolleyes.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [PA] Data is cheaper to transmit, so why is Verizon more expensive?