Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [PA] Data is cheaper to transmit, so why is Verizon more expensive?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[PA] Data is cheaper to transmit, so why is Verizon more expensive? - Page 19

post #181 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Well, why should the whole world bend to YOUR perspective?

Sorry, but internet and cell phones currently ARE a luxury, even by the textbook definition.

lux·u·ry (lgzh-r, lksh-)
n. pl. lux·u·ries
1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort.

Yes, having internet (and in this case, we are talking about high-speed broadband, since I've already discussed landlines and cell phones) is nice and BECOMING more and more used by everyone all the time, but it is hardly critical for life.

2/3rds of the planet seems to be able to live without internet, so I'm guessing it isn't essential to life. http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

So yes, my eyes ARE open to the world as they are ... most of the world doesn't have "cell phones with unlimited data plans and 2+MB/sec internet". I see the world just fine.

You do realize your interpretation of luxury and what people need to live or what is essential is vague and subjective right?

You don't need a car, you can walk, you don't need a printer, you can write by hand. You don't need a house or apartment, you can live in a hut or tent. You don't need electricity, you can live fine with good clothing and fire tongue.gif. Something being essential or convinience is dependant on the current standard of living of the individual. Not by you. And seeing as we don't live in 1982 anymore, I'd wager that based on the standard of living in a 1st world country, internet definitely seems to be essential.
Boinzy
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3570k 4.2Ghz Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H  XFX R9 280x TDFD 3GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
TOSHIBA X300 HDWE160XZSTA 6TB 7200 RPM Samsung 850 Evo 250GB Asus DRW-24B1ST Cooler Master 212+ 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Acer GN246HL Nixeus Moda Pro Mechanical Keyboard Cherry MX B... Antec Earthwatts 650W 
CaseMouseAudio
Thermaltake Chaser A41 Logitech G400 Bose Companion 2 
  hide details  
Reply
Boinzy
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3570k 4.2Ghz Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H  XFX R9 280x TDFD 3GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
TOSHIBA X300 HDWE160XZSTA 6TB 7200 RPM Samsung 850 Evo 250GB Asus DRW-24B1ST Cooler Master 212+ 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Acer GN246HL Nixeus Moda Pro Mechanical Keyboard Cherry MX B... Antec Earthwatts 650W 
CaseMouseAudio
Thermaltake Chaser A41 Logitech G400 Bose Companion 2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #182 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Working at McDonalds. Challenge accepted and beaten. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Now, the big thing is this...you should only be paying for these services if you are banking on it providing you more in return than what it costs. This is why I still have a dumb phone and simply a talk plan. A smartphone simply doesn't provide me anything to outweigh it's costs. Hardline internet access is different. I need it and therefore pay for it because it provides what I need to fulfill my academic needs in a fast enough manner. If it didn't...guess what? I wouldn't have it unless I had excess money. Sadly, most people don't get that and think they are entitled to it and so they have artificially increased the costs for others because they do not NEED it but they choose to pay for it anyway. They are actively destroying their own financial positions and purchasing power because they did not think. I have no sympathy for the apathy of the many.

Wrong, so many levels. The food was distributed using logistical systems heavily dependent on the internet. Not to mention the majority of the payment systems, as well as the systems inside the establishment which use the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Well, why should the whole world bend to YOUR perspective?

Sorry, but internet and cell phones currently ARE a luxury, even by the textbook definition.

lux·u·ry (lgzh-r, lksh-)
n. pl. lux·u·ries
1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort.

Yes, having internet (and in this case, we are talking about high-speed broadband, since I've already discussed landlines and cell phones) is nice and BECOMING more and more used by everyone all the time, but it is hardly critical for life.

2/3rds of the planet seems to be able to live without internet, so I'm guessing it isn't essential to life. http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

So yes, my eyes ARE open to the world as they are ... most of the world doesn't have "cell phones with unlimited data plans and 2+MB/sec internet". I see the world just fine.

I'm not interested in bending the world to any perspective, I simply look at the world as it is, not through a looking glass to make everything black and white.

Go ahead and live in Africa, the crappy parts of Asia and South / Central America then. Your life is heavily dependent on the internet. Can you physically survive without it? Yes, can you live in this country, or the rest of the modern world? Nope. Even the definition you present for luxury trumps your attempts to call internet connectivity a luxury. Cell phone data plans are not conducive to pleasure and comfort, it is often a business need. Commerce and the world we live in depends on inter connectivity and fast turn around. In some extreme cases, you could consider cell phone data plans a non essential utility, but in no way shape or form does that make them a luxury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobahamut View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Basket weaving....that is all...



and I will counter your response of internet sales with this!!!!



FLEA MARKETS!!!!

You.. might actually be right on the basket weaving, small arts and crafts.. providing of course, the materials were not acquired on the open market, and the weavergrew or gathered the materials they use on their own. As for the flea markets, again that only might not required the internet if the goods or services used to create them didn't require the internet, and if they were never shipped or moved via modern logistical systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Let's not forget that 13% of the US population is RETIRED, and last time I checked, you don't need even "2nd order dependence on the internet" to be retired.

How do those retired people pay for everything? Thank god for those all cash transactions and their 401k... oh right.

Sorry bud, you're wrong again. The internet is integral in the daily lives of nearly everyone in this country. It doesn't matter if it is implicit or explicit, you encounter the internet or the fruits of its use every day. There is no way something this involved in your daily life is a luxury.

EDIT: to your edit.

Sure and companies still have to pay ridiculous data fees as well, though usually not as bad as they have larger buying power and can force companies to give them slightly better rates. Corporate or consumer is irrelevant as cost is still disproportionate to the products value.

Not going to counter every little job you post, I've already made it quite clear that even a job which doesn't directly interface with the internet depends on it, and the worker depends on it equally.
Edited by Avonosac - 1/25/13 at 9:07am
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
post #183 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boinz View Post

You do realize your interpretation of luxury and what people need to live or what is essential is vague and subjective right?

YES!

And for every person that is telling me I'm wrong, I can turn the same thing around on them and give them an example of how it IS a luxury.

So YES, it is very subjective. Which is the point. If it is subjective, then it really isn't NEEDED to live.

I'm not saying that there are cases where you don't absolutely HAVE TO HAVE a cell phone or internet. Sure there are. But in those few cases, you are generally PROVIDED them.
post #184 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

How do those retired people pay for everything? Thank god for those all cash transactions and their 401k... oh right.

Sorry bud, you're wrong again. The internet is integral in the daily lives of nearly everyone in this country. It doesn't matter if it is implicit or explicit, you encounter the internet or the fruits of its use every day. There is no way something this involved in your daily life is a luxury.

It's called CASH. You know, those strange rectangular paper things people carry around? I hear some people actually have special containers they carry them in and they can take them to a store and buy food with them.

How do they get them? Well, periodically they have someone else use this strange system called United States Mail deliver another piece of paper to them called a "check" and they can then take that piece of paper to another place called a bank, and they will change that piece of paper into many other things called "cash".

Shall I continue?


Yes, Internet and such is nice .... but you are FAILING to understand that it isn't NEEDED most of the time in peoples personal lives. In the cases that it is, like a job, most often the job will PROVIDE the internet or cell phone.

Maybe you should look at that link I provided before, http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm , and ask yourself how do people live without the internet, when clearly 2/3rds of the planet doesn't use the internet, and somehow 2/3rds of the planet are born, live, and die, without it.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 1/25/13 at 9:12am
post #185 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

YES!

And for every person that is telling me I'm wrong, I can turn the same thing around on them and give them an example of how it IS a luxury.

So YES, it is very subjective. Which is the point. If it is subjective, then it really isn't NEEDED to live.

I'm not saying that there are cases where you don't absolutely HAVE TO HAVE a cell phone or internet. Sure there are. But in those few cases, you are generally PROVIDED them.

Why don't we talk about improving what we have instead of talking about how little we need to live. Sure we can live in the wilderness in a cabin by ourselves but do we all want to do that? No so let's talk about breaking up the oligopoly that are internet service providers.

Britain has already worked on this with their biggest Telecom BT where BT had to lease out all of their last-mile connections to private businessmen while they handled the fiber connecting the country. So far this has helped introduce competition across Britain and has allowed multiple ISPs to offer service to the same areas.
post #186 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvantheDugtrio View Post

Why don't we talk about improving what we have instead of talking about how little we need to live. Sure we can live in the wilderness in a cabin by ourselves but do we all want to do that?

That's fine. Let's start another thread about it, somewhere else.

This whole tangent got started when people started whining that Verizon was charging more than what THEY THOUGHT they should be. Well, in a luxury item, you can.

Now if you want to start talking about setting up your own Utopian world and who is going to pay for it all, that is most likely going to be a discussion that won't be allowed on this board.
post #187 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

It's called CASH. You know, those strange rectangular paper things people carry around? I hear some people actually have special containers they carry them in and they can take them to a store and buy food with them.

How do they get them? Well, periodically they have someone else use this strange system called United States Mail deliver another piece of paper to them called a "check" and they can then take that piece of paper to another place called a bank, and they will change that piece of paper into many other things called "cash".

Shall I continue?


Yes, Internet and such is nice .... but you are FAILING to understand that it isn't NEEDED most of the time in peoples personal lives. In the cases that it is, like a job, most often the job will PROVIDE the internet or cell phone.

I'm trying to decide if you really do not understand the systematic integration and need for the internet within this country, or if you have some understanding and you're having a great time trolling this discussion.

Your banking attempts at arguments are so hilariously off-base, I have to conclude you know nothing about the financial industry in this country, or you really are just out for a laugh.

Your continued denial of the levels of "need" and immediate appending of "luxury" of anything not required for immediate survival is frustrating, naive and asinine. Just because its food and water, it does not make it a luxury. It also does not make the definition of it as a luxury good "subjective" because you can not go through a day in the united states, without explicitly or implicity interacting with the internet, it can not be done.
Edited by Avonosac - 1/25/13 at 9:22am
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
post #188 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

YES!

And for every person that is telling me I'm wrong, I can turn the same thing around on them and give them an example of how it IS a luxury.

So YES, it is very subjective. Which is the point. If it is subjective, then it really isn't NEEDED to live.

I'm not saying that there are cases where you don't absolutely HAVE TO HAVE a cell phone or internet. Sure there are. But in those few cases, you are generally PROVIDED them.

Way to leave out everything else from my post that counters your argument, really smooth. The only difference between every substitute of the internet and the internet you keep bringing up, is that those substitutes have been around for 90+ years. The internet only for a good 25 years or more. By your logic, we would still be living in caves since every technological innovation from the industrial age is non-essential.
Boinzy
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3570k 4.2Ghz Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H  XFX R9 280x TDFD 3GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
TOSHIBA X300 HDWE160XZSTA 6TB 7200 RPM Samsung 850 Evo 250GB Asus DRW-24B1ST Cooler Master 212+ 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Acer GN246HL Nixeus Moda Pro Mechanical Keyboard Cherry MX B... Antec Earthwatts 650W 
CaseMouseAudio
Thermaltake Chaser A41 Logitech G400 Bose Companion 2 
  hide details  
Reply
Boinzy
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 3570k 4.2Ghz Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H  XFX R9 280x TDFD 3GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
TOSHIBA X300 HDWE160XZSTA 6TB 7200 RPM Samsung 850 Evo 250GB Asus DRW-24B1ST Cooler Master 212+ 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Acer GN246HL Nixeus Moda Pro Mechanical Keyboard Cherry MX B... Antec Earthwatts 650W 
CaseMouseAudio
Thermaltake Chaser A41 Logitech G400 Bose Companion 2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #189 of 224
Ok, understand something, this whole argument about is "high speed broadband and cell phones" a luxury or a necessity basically comes down to one thing ... money ... and specifically, who is going to pay for it.

It doesn't matter if you want your definition of luxury or mine. Ultimately it comes down to who is going to pay for it.

The reason why I REFUSE to say that it isn't a luxury is simple. The moment you start saying cell phones and high speed internet aren't luxuries and must be accessible to all, then people will start clamoring to have government pay for it and who must provide access to it, regardless of the cost to get it there.

I will stay away from the political side of things, but suffice it to say, once you go down this road, then the burden of WHO will actually pay for your cell phone and high speed internet will become apparent as to why, as a conservative, I just don't want to go down this road.

So, I will say, once and for all: If you want a cell phone or high speed internet, knock yourself out. You CAN get it, from a variety of different delivery systems. Each system has their own pro's and con's ... be they speed, latency, data caps, or more to the point ... COST. I don't care where you are in the lower 48 states, if you want 300MB/Sec internet with 10ms ping times, you CAN get it. Granted it means you might have to set up a tower and have your signal transmitted in via microwave link and it will cost you $10,000 a month, but YOU CAN GET IT.

But the problem is, as I've said a dozen times before, people want it all, and they want it for cheap/free ... and declaring it a non-luxury, that is the first step to passing the cost over from YOUR wallet to "someone else".


And with that, I'm done on this subject.

Peace!

thumb.gif
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 1/25/13 at 9:41am
post #190 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

These are custom installations for specific customers/businesses/clients paying for the optimized network or these more general consumer deployments?

Very general, we have a standard equipment package we install in 90% of all cases that get our service. We do offer custom implementations for businesses, but those are rare considering the larger part of our customer base has us, dial-up, or sat as their options. In some cases they have us because they hate the way Charter does business, or their DSL is horrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Wireless is game changer in 3rd world countries with no existing infrastructure.

I'm not sure if wireless can keep up with demands in cities though especially with the current state of the spectrum licensing.

In another thread a few months ago I went over the estimated cost to roll land lines out across the US that would be capable of providing the vast majority of the population, in all areas, with high speed internet. It, as I knew, was astronomical and really not feasible given how large of an area we would have to cover and the various geographical features.

Wireless could keep up with demand if what I highlighted in your above quote was resolved. Very few people actually know how much spectrum we have available in the USA and how much is being used. Those of us that do are pretty pissed off about the situation, as we are only using a SMALL portion of the known spectrum, and only allowed technology on that spectrum that isn't as efficient as other tech would be with it.

Yes, spectrum is more crowded in metro areas, say 250,000+ population, but even in those area there is a ton of unused spectrum that we would love to get our hands on. The problem? The FCC won't allow it.....but that is an entirely too political discussion for OCN.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 1/25/13 at 10:07am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 5820K AsRock Extreme6 X99 Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti Windforce OC 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 EVO 250GB - HDD Speed Edtition Samsung SM951 512 GB - I still hate Samsung!  Noctua NHD14 Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Achieva Shimian QH270-Lite Overlord Computer Tempest X27OC  Acer Predator XB270HU Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-1250 Fractal Design R5 Razer Naga Razer Goliathus Alpha 
AudioAudio
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition Creative Sound Blaster Zx 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [PA] Data is cheaper to transmit, so why is Verizon more expensive?