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Delta-T "Load" Temps - Questions

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
So after doing my research on watercooling over the past year and building my own loop (actually about three of them), I've always wondered what a good Delta Temp is

Please read my whole post before commenting please!

I know that they say "Delta-T is the difference between Ambient Air and Water Temp at full load", but depending on the application "loading" the chip, your Delta-T could exceed what is considered "Good/Very Good"

For example, running Unigine 3.0, my 7970's never exceed 44'C and my water temp never goes above 34'C, after subtracting ambient (21.1'C), that leaves me with 13'C which from what I've seen for a GPU is "Pretty good". But is that really "Load"? If I run Bitcoin Miners, my Water temp shoots to 38'C, which brings my Delta-T to ~ 17'C which isn't very good but yet my GPU temps are still really good (~52-54'C)

I'm trying to figure out how somebody could get their Delta-T in the 10'C range without running a massive amount of radiators and high speed fans? Because everything I've read suggests "10-14" is "Very Good" and anything above that is pretty much average
post #2 of 29
To my liking, deltaT should not be above 10c ever but.thats just me.

Now, maybe we can improuve what you got a little bit. If not, then only three other choices prrsent themselves:
- more fans
- more rads
- lower ambient temps

The later will improuve your temps but not your delta T itself.

Im guessing you dont like any of these suggestions. So let's see if we can optimize your loop a bit.

- What fans on your rads?
- How many fans on your rad?
- Are your fans controlled?
- Where is your rad? Bottom, top, front, or back?
- Got pix?

Edit: I thought you only had one rad. But according to your sig, you got a 120.3 and a 120.2. With that much raddage, your delta T should be much better, below 10c for sure. There is something in your loop that is off. Perhaps you are sandwiching your rads, which pretty much voids the second rad. Or maybe your fans are set way too low.

Cheers cheers.gif
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/24/13 at 9:14am
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post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
I've got a 60mm 240 in the front mounted vertically in push/pull with helix 120's, and a stealth gt 360 in push pull with AP15's
post #4 of 29
Is the front rad pushing air in and the top rad pushing air out? How is the airflow arranged?
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post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesaiditstrue View Post

I've got a 60mm 240 in the front mounted vertically in push/pull with helix 120's, and a stealth gt 360 in push pull with AP15's

I think Jakus put the finger on it, I bet your second rad, the GT 360, is pulling case air out the roof. If that's the case, your second rad is almost useless because it's basically recycling hot warmed up air from the first rad.
If this is the case, I suggest you move the 360 to the floor and have both rads pushing air into the case. Or if you can't do that, you could always get this bracket to mount the 360 on the outside of the case:
http://koolance.com/radiator-mounting-bracket-with-quick-release
For sure with 120.5 raddage in total, your temps should be much better. A delta T of 17c is not acceptable with this much rads/fans.

If you have one rad using the other rad's hot air, that is basically a rad sandwich. Here is a test conducted about rad sandwiches and how poor a performance they put out:
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/06/08/hesmelaughs-radiator-sandwich-testing/
I think by moving that top rad in a better location, you would drop your delta T below 10c for sure. No way 120.5 in push/pull is only gonna give you a delta T of 17c.

Cheers cheers.gif
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/24/13 at 9:10am
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post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
How else would people mount the radiators/fans in a switch 810 though? 99.9% of people are using an intake floor/front mounted rad and an exhausting 360 in the roof. you're basically saying the case design is wrong
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesaiditstrue View Post

How else would people mount the radiators/fans in a switch 810 though? 99.9% of people are using an intake floor/front mounted rad and an exhausting 360 in the roof. you're basically saying the case design is wrong
So you are saying there is room for a rad on the floor and a rad on the front?
If so, he would be better off that way, with both rads sucking air into the case.

Using air from a first rad to cool the second rad is just ineficient. Might almost as well not use the second rad at all.
I dont make jusgement on that case, I'm not familiar with that case, I never worked on it. If it has options to put rads on front, bottom, and top, all the bettet. Options are never a bad thing. Now if 99% of people choose the wrong option, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

I garanty you, if one rad is recycling the other rad's air, he will greatly increase his delta by moving to have both rads using fresh air. There could be other factors that impeed his loop's performance, I dont know. In fact, he might not evem sandwich his rads at this point. But I have a strong feeling that's where the problem is.

Cheers cheers.gif

Edit: I didnt realise I was responding to OP. Never mind the 3rd person stuff above.

Your second rad is using the first rad's air. Move the second rad to the floor or outside with that bracket and you will decrease your delta to below 10c. Read the link I provided above, science does't lie.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/24/13 at 12:40pm
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post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesaiditstrue View Post

How else would people mount the radiators/fans in a switch 810 though? 99.9% of people are using an intake floor/front mounted rad and an exhausting 360 in the roof. you're basically saying the case design is wrong

Well a better way to do it is to have either both rads pushing air out and case fans blowing air in or both rads pushing air in and case fans blowing that hot air out. As has been said having one effectively feeding the other is no different to radiator sandwiching.

Radiators will only be really effective when fed nice cool air, the second rad can't do its best because it is trying to cool water with air that is essentially the same temperature.

There is nothing wrong with the design of the case, its great that there are that many options.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 1/24/13 at 12:57pm
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post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Well a better way to do it is to have either both rads pushing air out and case fans blowing air in or both rads pushing air in and case fans blowing that hot air out. As has been said having one effectively feeding the other is no different to radiator sandwiching.

Radiators will only be really effective when fed nice cool air, the second rad can't do its best because it is trying to cool water with air that is essentially the same temperature.

There is nothing wrong with the design of the case, its great that there are that many options.

This^^^
That is even easier, all there is to do is turn around the front fans. And voila! This way, neither rads are using the other rad's air and intake is via floor and back.

Damn it Jakusonfire, I hate it when people are smarter than me. Don't be doing that again. biggrin.gif

Cheers cheers.gif
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/24/13 at 1:17pm
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post #10 of 29
Also, if you reverse your front fans so that both rads are using case air, make sure that plenty of air can get into the case to feed your two rads. Maybe open up your back and your floor a bit, have fans at back and floor pulling air into the case. If your case doesnt allow a lot of air to come in easily, your two rads will struggle to do their job.

smile.gif

Btw, it's a very good thing you did to check your delta. A lot of guys dont even bother, or dont even know what delta T is. You got the best way to annalize your loop's performance: your delta T.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/24/13 at 1:21pm
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