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[Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire - Page 20

post #191 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

1. You are not the average computer user, you are not even the average gamer, not everyone here has the money to go through 2-3 CPUs in 3 years.

And even then, if you did, it's because you want to, not because you need to. People who bought a 2600K in 2011, two years ago, have zero reasons to upgrade. Heck, they don't even have much reason to upgrade to Haswell when it is released in June, unless they plan to use the IGP, and by then the CPU will have lasted two and a half years.

2. I don't know if the FX-8350 will do worse, but it's the natural progression, the HD 7970 (not the Ghz Edition) with the launch drivers already showed a 9% performance difference in compute applications using PCIe 3.0 16x versus PCIe 2.0 16x. Now take into consideration updated drivers, the Ghz Edition, the HD 8000 series which is around the corner, which will increase that performance difference even more, and then consider the HD 9000 series, which will be out next year, which will probably be even more of a difference as it will be on a wholly different manufacturing process, a whole node better. Now take into consideration that games will use more and more GPU compute resources, as that is what the next generation consoles will also rely on to extract more performance from, and it's not hard to imagine the bottleneck.

3. Why are you comparing the FX-8350 with the i5-3570K ? We are talking about the i7-3770K which competes in multi-threaded tasks against the FX-8350. The FX-8350 will not start winning in multi-threaded tasks against the i7-3770K in the future.

4. Your usage patterns varies, I specifically mentioned that the math was for 24/7 load, and then even divided that by three. Of course many people won't be use all 8 cores even for 8 hours, but if you're folding, you will more than that, as we all agree. If you transcode a lot, you will also take full advantage of the CPU cores, whereas with the i7-3770K you will use it less given you can use QuickSync to speed it up and use less power.

5. You don't know how much I paid for my GTX 480, nor is there any card on the market that justifies its price versus what I paid for it, nor do I game with it often, so I am not using it at all times - but when I do, I want good performance, hence why I bought it. For the record, I paid € 227 for the card brand new in the box in April of 2011, when the inferior GTX 570 was selling for € 350. Now you tell me this wasn't a good deal. I am planning on buying one of the new GTX 700 series when they are released, I'm not buying a compromised card which is what the current GTX 600 series is.

6. The HD 5850 is worse than a GTX 480, in general and in tessellation it is much worse. The GTX 480 is better than the HD 5870, in fact it is just as good as the HD 6970, so your comparisons are way off. I'm not even sure where you got the HD 5830 from, that card is supposed to compete against the GTX 460, not the GTX 480.

7. I don't live in Denmark, so none of this applies to me. I wasn't making an ad hominem argument anyway, I was just stating a fact that for some people electricity costs are a factor.

1) Neither is the person who might get a FX-8350 or Core i5/i7, most of those would not notice the difference in power consumption, performance or anything. My point still stands, however, the power consumption over that amount of time and extra cost of running AMD wouldn't be much higher than Intel because I'm looking at the real world, not close to the worst case scenario.

2) Care to show me how? I can find something that disagrees with that...1-2fps average extra.

3) No, it won't...But you pay less for it and as I've been saying, the electricity costs only add up to make up for it if you run the chip for plenty of years, it will eventually catch up but as I said, most people who will notice the difference would likely have upgraded.

4) If you fold, you're going to be getting Intel as it runs much faster on Intel due to using the ICC. I'd also wager that a lot of people who video encode don't do it 24/7 either, although yes the cost would add up then.

5) This topic isn't about the HD5850 performance and to try and keep it on topic, I'm not going to reply directly to this.

6) Yes, but my point was about power consumption..why complain when you're spending extra on power already?

7) Neither does it concern most people, even those living in other countries. It's really a moot point for most people who would get one, and those who don't really don't need to be told about it as they'll look for themselves, so why were you constantly bringing the power consumption in Denmark up as though it affects everyone?
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post #192 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

Lolz.... keep dreaming.

Yes he is right. GTX 480 stomps the HD5850 as the latter is very slow especially in DX11.
Even the HD5870 itself will have a hard time to even beat a good clocking GTX 470 let alone the GTX 480.
The HD5870/ 6970 hardly have any good OC potential and they don't scale as well as Fermi.
According to HWBot HD6970 avg. OC is 962 MHz which is a meager 9%. The GTX 480 on the other hand can do 859 MHz which is 23% above its stock..
I have no doubt after OC the 480 will beat the 6970 by a mile...
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post #193 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3st3r View Post

Yeah bro cuz a 60+ FPS difference in games is comparable to .2 seconds in lifting weights. Best analogy ever.

^ttly missing the point here.
the point of the analogy was that intel only use 1 arm to achieve while AMD has to use 2, meaning it only takes 1 intel cores to own 2 AMD cores and if we were to compare intel quads to amd quads amd would be dead.

how embarrasing that your company's best CPU with 8 cores, running at higher frequency, is getting owned by a competitor's CPU with only 4 cores!
not to mention that the 8 cores chug down way more electricity.
AMD CPU -> fat and slow obese
Intel CPU -> quick and fit athlete
Edited by james8 - 1/24/13 at 10:39pm
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post #194 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

1) Neither is the person who might get a FX-8350 or Core i5/i7, most of those would not notice the difference in power consumption, performance or anything. My point still stands, however, the power consumption over that amount of time and extra cost of running AMD wouldn't be much higher than Intel because I'm looking at the real world, not close to the worst case scenario.

2) Care to show me how? I can find something that disagrees with that...1-2fps average extra.

3) No, it won't...But you pay less for it and as I've been saying, the electricity costs only add up to make up for it if you run the chip for plenty of years, it will eventually catch up but as I said, most people who will notice the difference would likely have upgraded.

4) If you fold, you're going to be getting Intel as it runs much faster on Intel due to using the ICC. I'd also wager that a lot of people who video encode don't do it 24/7 either, although yes the cost would add up then.

5) This topic isn't about the HD5850 performance and to try and keep it on topic, I'm not going to reply directly to this.

6) Yes, but my point was about power consumption..why complain when you're spending extra on power already?

7) Neither does it concern most people, even those living in other countries. It's really a moot point for most people who would get one, and those who don't really don't need to be told about it as they'll look for themselves, so why were you constantly bringing the power consumption in Denmark up as though it affects everyone?


1. I was making a point about people making their money be well spent over the course of 3 years, to which you replied you switched CPUs 2 -3 times over the course of 3 years, how does your answer now apply to that ?

2. I'm talking about compute performance, read it again, my reasoning makes perfect sense, you even admit Physics will be more and more used, the GPU compute side can take care of that (it already does on Nvidia cards), so the difference will only grow from now on, especially since the new consoles will make extensive use of GPU compute to help the CPU, so the same will happen on the PC.

3. Or maybe not; I still see plenty of people here with first generation core i7's overclocked to 4 Ghz, 4.2 Ghz, and those are from 2008 and 2009, so there are lots of people here with 4 year old CPUs.

4. Nothing to argue here.

5. Well, you really can't because you can't win this one. thumb.gif

6. But you don't have a point. Comparing a slower card with lower power consumption to a faster card with higher power consumption ? What is the point of that ? You were recommending a slower card, and even went to mention the HD 5830, which is even slower. You were mistaken.

7. I was bringing it up because many people here think that the world revolves around the US, and we all know electricity there is cheap, so I was just pointing out a country where that is not the case, I picked Denmark, because TH mentioned it, I guess I can pick some more European countries where electricity is more expensive than in the US, I just didn't do it to save time, but I can guarantee you right away that the electricity in Europe is in general more expensive than in the US.
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/24/13 at 10:45pm
 
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post #195 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

LOL!

Your steam account has been around for how long? How old are most of the games?

Your steam account is hardly a predicament of what current games do. Instead look at recent release off triple A titles then count how many have or are going multiple cores.

Its funny how the whole excuse people use for saying intel is better is "its better for my single/dual core games" That is just absurd.

Its a known fact most games get optimized for consoles then ported to PC. So if the new consoles are using AMD 8 core chips, how many games in the future are only gonna be single thread reliant? wink.gif

Most of the game I play are single threaded... STALKER series, ARMA.....

And it'll take years for highly threaded games to out weigh the single threaded ones...
post #196 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post

how embarrasing that your company's best CPU with 8 cores, running at higher frequency, is getting owned by a competitor's CPU with only 4 cores!
not to mention that the 8 cores chug down way more electricity.
AMD CPU -> fat and slow obese
Intel CPU -> quick and fit athlete

How embarrassing it must be for you that AMD can produce an 8 core for much cheaper than Intel, or hell, even Samsung!

See, I can "forget" half of the picture to make the company that made my CPU look better too. wink.gif

I don't care if my CPU has 1 core or 9001 cores, if it's faster for what I do at the same price range...It's faster, no ifs buts or maybes, it's faster at what I do. The FX-8350 is faster than the i5 for most things other than gaming at the same cost, and it isn't really that far behind in most games unless you love gaming at 1024x768 and have a insanely high refresh rate to see all the FPS its still pumping out...So, CRT users? No matter what you do, go Intel.
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post #197 of 595
Tripped the power circuit at my house when benchmarking an 8350 @4.4GHz. Albeit I had my space heater running, but still, damn. hahaha biggrin.gif
post #198 of 595
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

How embarrassing it must be for you that AMD can produce an 8 core for much cheaper than Intel, or hell, even Samsung!

See, I can "forget" half of the picture to make the company that made my CPU look better too. wink.gif

I don't care if my CPU has 1 core or 9001 cores, if it's faster for what I do at the same price range...It's faster, no ifs buts or maybes, it's faster at what I do. The FX-8350 is faster than the i5 for most things other than gaming at the same cost, and it isn't really that far behind in most games unless you love gaming at 1024x768 and have a insanely high refresh rate to see all the FPS its still pumping out...So, CRT users? No matter what you do, go Intel.

Move along 2500K/7950/Hyper212/Samsung Green/Korean IPS Evangelists, the 8350 Evangelists are coming through thumb.gif
Edited by sherlock - 1/24/13 at 11:13pm
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post #199 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Move along 2500K/7950/Hyper212/Samsung Green/Korean IPS Evangelists, the 8350 Evangelists are coming through thumb.gif


In all fairness the 7950 is a damn good card for the price. So is the hyper212. As is the 2500k biggrin.gif
post #200 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

Most of the game I play are single threaded... STALKER series, ARMA.....

And it'll take years for highly threaded games to out weigh the single threaded ones...

Incorrect. Almost every single new FPS coming out is already doing this.
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