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[Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire - Page 25

post #241 of 595
Quote:
Mind explaining how you got that 640 W number?

Here is what the source said about power consumption:


The FX-8350's stock power consumption doesn't look too terrible compared to Intel's, even though it's indeed higher. But we don't get the whole story from this chart, either. We didn't see AMD's chip running at its rated 4 GHz when it was under duress at stock settings. Rather, it dropped both its multiplier and voltage level under an eight-thread Prime95 workload to stay within its rated power envelope. Throttling artificially curbs the CPU's power consumption, and the big increases we see when the Vishera-based processor is overclocked come from fixed multiplier and voltage settings.

At the same time, games don't really utilize the FX-8350's ability to handle eight threads concurrently, and consequently never seem to trigger the same throttling mechanism. Also interesting is that the FX-8350, at its stock voltage setting, often exceeds the 1.35 V we set manually for overclocking. That explains why system power consumption doesn't change much between the stock and overclocked GPU load tests.

Judging by the idle power usage, it is apparent that neither processors have any Power Saving features enabled. Thus the Piledriver CPU would not throttle while under load unless a Thermal Boundary was reached. So I'd say that info is inaccurate.

Due to vDroop and the LLC function the only way for the processor to exceed the manually set 1.35v is with the Extreme LLC function, thus artificially increasing the required power usage of the CPU.



How I got the the Piledriver Overclocked CPU+GPU value.
The Overclocked i7 uses ~43% of it's CPU added to the max GPU value to get this value.

Using this value, and the proper power usage of Piledriver at 4.4Ghz It goes like this: (I used 46% for Piledriver as within the margin of error, it might use a little more CPU to get the same results as Ivy)

46% of CPU Power usage at load + GPU usage
(0.46 * 248)+ 526 = 640
So while these benchmarks represent comparible performance in Crossfire

The "slight of hand" appears to be exaggerated power usage values.
Even if you calculate it
TDP((OC MHZ/MHZ)(OC V/V)^2)=~WATTS
Intel i7 3770k = 77W
FX 8350 = 125W

The i7 should be between 110-119W at that OC (increased frequency and voltage)
The FX should be between 120-125W at that OC (increased frequency and reduced voltage)

That's quite a bit different than the 130W difference shown in the original graphs.
Edited by ComputerRestore - 1/25/13 at 8:06am
post #242 of 595
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComputerRestore View Post

Judging by the idle power usage, it is apparent that neither processors have any Power Saving features enabled. Thus the Piledriver CPU would not throttle while under load unless a Thermal Boundary was reached. So I'd say that info is inaccurate.

How would that info be inaccurate if neither processor have Power saving feature enabled? Is it not common in benchmarks and OCs to disable all power saving features and show the CPU's max power draw/prevent core throttling due to power saving features?

So it would be fair to for the FX-8350 to have all power saving feature enabled and Ivy none? That according to your calculations there is negligible difference between the power draw(119W vs 120W) of a 4.4Ghz 3770K @1.25V and a 4.4 Ghz FX-8350 @1.35V, you honestly believe that?
Quote:
The i7 should be between 110-119W at that OC (increased frequency and voltage)
The FX should be between 120-125W at that OC (increased frequency and reduced voltage)

p.s the HD4000 is idle or most likely disabled during the test, that drops 3770K's TDP into the mid 60 range, using the 77W TDP to calculate i7's power-draw would be inaccurate.
Edited by sherlock - 1/25/13 at 8:20am
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post #243 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

How would that info be inaccurate if neither processor have Power saving feature enabled? Is it not common in benchmarks and OCs to disable all power saving features and show the CPU's max power draw/prevent core throttling due to power saving features?

Thank you for prooving my point about this
Quote:
We didn't see AMD's chip running at its rated 4 GHz when it was under duress at stock settings. Rather, it dropped both its multiplier and voltage level under an eight-thread Prime95 workload to stay within its rated power envelope.

What they are saying is that at stock the FX8350 power usage would have been higher, had it not bee throttling, and yet it is obvious that neither CPU have power saving options enabled or idle power draw would have been around the 70-80w range, thus no throttling should occur.

Quote:
So it would be fair to for the FX-8350 to have all power saving feature enabled and Ivy none? That according to your calculations there is negligible difference between the power draw(119W vs 120W) of a 4.4Ghz 3770K @1.25V and a 4.4 Ghz FX-8350 @1.35V, you honestly believe that?
p.s the HD4000 is idle or most likely disabled during the test, that drops 3770K's TDP into the mid 60 range, using the 77W TDP to calculate i7's power-draw would be inaccurate.

I never suggested that the FX-8350 should use power saving features.

For the negligible difference I put a range of Watt values. Under the same conditions it would be closer Ivy 110W, FX 8350 125W. So a difference of 15W, which is reasonable, but also much different than the 130W comparison.

I do actually believe that at the same frequency Ivy Bridge and Piledriver will use similar amounts of power. Because at the same frequency 3.5Ghz and ~1.2v Piledriver only sips around 70-80W. The FX-8350 has reasonable voltage scaling up until ~4.6Ghz. (unless it's an extremely poor sample) Above that though, Ivy would probably use less power.

Just because a CPU can operate at a lower voltage does not mean it's not pulling more Current. (W = V x A)
Edited by ComputerRestore - 1/25/13 at 10:13am
post #244 of 595
Intel has ringbus, They do Not need large L3 cache. This came with Sandy bridge along with it's uop cache which loops instructions that get repeated.

I'm pretty sure if you look in the AMD cpu fourm part of this web site you'll find a user using 4 7970 and with a FX 8350 just fine. No chipset bottleneck.

Pretty sure there is a "inter core" Bottleneck along with a "memory, and Cache misses" bottleneck for AMD.


And about the Clocks

stock for Intel on the 3770K is 3.5ghz a 4.4ghz is a 25% OC from stock
stock for AMD on the 8350FX is 4.0ghz a 4.4ghz is a 10% OC from stock

you would need 5.0ghz to give the same 25% OC in scaling as intel.
    
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post #245 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

First thing i noticed how 3570K did worse in Crysis 1440p vs 1080p. Is that possible? CPU should not have more strain @ higher resolution.
Never played Arma 2 but its either 8 core fully optimized or something wrong with 3570K.
What happened in FC3 lol?

Its okay Logan has a magical FX that goes against the thousands of benchmarks already out. His magical FX magically beats the FX in every situation! Magic bro!
post #246 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3st3r View Post

Its okay Logan has a magical FX that goes against the thousands of benchmarks already out. His magical FX magically beats the FX in every situation! Magic bro!

TBH I think their 3570K is throttling in some games or something, would explain the unreasonable differences. They did use an ITX board and not a very good one.

And calling a 4.5ghz overclock amazing etc. kind of puts some doubs to their ability to even properly OC...
 
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post #247 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

TBH I think their 3570K is throttling in some games or something, would explain the unreasonable differences. They did use an ITX board and not a very good one.

And calling a 4.5ghz overclock amazing etc. kind of puts some doubs to their ability to even properly OC...

In Metro it feels like they had some of the hidden setting on with 3570K like PhysX and Tessellation.
They probably did not know how to OC 3570K and put a lot of volts and probably hit 100C under load.
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post #248 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

In Metro it feels like they had some of the hidden setting on with 3570K like PhysX and Tessellation.
They probably did not know how to OC 3570K and put a lot of volts and probably hit 100C under load.

Or maybe it was just slower.
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post #249 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

TBH I think their 3570K is throttling in some games or something, would explain the unreasonable differences. They did use an ITX board and not a very good one.

And calling a 4.5ghz overclock amazing etc. kind of puts some doubs to their ability to even properly OC...

His reviews have a certain feel that hes just trying to manipulate the results in amds favor. I personally don't care. Let amd fans get all excited. People who read respected reviews know whats up
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post #250 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Or maybe it was just slower.

But we know it's not?

Are you trying to tell us that while AMD gets badly left in the dust with multi GPU setups and CPU bound games, intel can't handle a single GPU in GPU bound games? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
 
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