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[Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire - Page 27

post #261 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3st3r View Post

The FX processor will do FINE when a game uses 4+ cores - why are AMD fans constantly bringing this up????

If a game uses 8 cores, like BF3, the FX series is actually a great buy. The problem is that 99.9999999% of games DO NOT. And therefore, they run like poo compared to the Intel equivalent. If all my games ran on 8 cores I would get the FX series no doubt - SLI/Xfire and all.

The fact of the matter is that Intels quads still dominate AMDs 8 cores. Just wait till Intel releases 6-8 core i5 and i7s. AMD will have to respond with even moar c0r3z unless they come up with a decent chip.

What single threaded games are too much for a 8350 to handle at playable frame rates? The only game i can think of is planetside 2. My point earlier was that single threaded games are either old and or don't require much power which means an 8350 will handle them FINE, and again, the exception(s) to this rule are fewer and far between than the amount of multi threaded games.
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post #262 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

How exactly does AMD get left in the dust on multi GPU setups? That's a misconception, that two members on OCN already disproved. Not saying Intel's not better at it but an exaggeratory term like "getting left in the dust" is just dumb. Unless your talking 2011 chips then I am inclined to agree.

Everything aside, answer me this: Why is it you can buy a chip like a FX-6300 and play any game a 3770K can?

And that "review" by those two OCNers is the only multi GPU review where I've seen those results. Everyone else, toms, vr-zone, [H], multiple other benches on OCN are saying that FX chips do indeed bottleneck multi GPU setups. I'd rather go with the majority on this one.

You can buy it because it's good value for the money? Doesn't mean that it will match the 3770K in games but if you're not bothered with comparatively small differences then there's nothing wrong with the CPU choice. For a lot of OCNers getting the most out of their system/GPU is important.

Thing is that you can just as well game on nehalem, phenom II, SB, C2Q even.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComputerRestore View Post

Fixed

Link

Ohhhh....Logan's review. While funny, as someone who appreciates both sides, it kind of makes AMD look foolish.
While AMD isn't as bad as people make it out to be, it isn't as good as that review made it out to be. Troll video is Troll.

Only review that doesn't show bottlenecks and it's always linked. But how do you explain toms' results then? They had a 7970CFX setup and the FX clearly lost 3 of the 5 games.

And yeah agreed on the teksyndicate vid. II love their "TEK" show but the benchmark videos so far have been garbage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

What single threaded games are too much for a 8350 to handle at playable frame rates? The only game i can think of is planetside 2. My point earlier was that single threaded games are either old and or don't require much power which means an 8350 will handle them FINE, and again, the exception(s) to this rule are fewer and far between than the amount of multi threaded games.

SC2 in heavy situations.
 
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post #263 of 595
I love watching people arguing over Heaven or using a benchmark to show how AMD can compete, or resorting to the old 'but it keeps up in BF3 and Crysis 2' argument.

Heaven's not a game and BF3 and Crysis 2 are not the only 2 games in the world...

Not a single game in top 20 most played in STEAM games list can use more then 4 threads....

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Infact a very very large amount only use 2 threads.......

And yet AMD owners only want new games benchmarked as people only play new games right? And old games don't matter rolleyes.gif
post #264 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

What single threaded games are too much for a 8350 to handle at playable frame rates? The only game i can think of is planetside 2. My point earlier was that single threaded games are either old and or don't require much power which means an 8350 will handle them FINE, and again, the exception(s) to this rule are fewer and far between than the amount of multi threaded games.

Lol playable frame rates is all subjective man. Go to the 120Hz monitor post and try to run your logic by them - they won't buy it. I agree with you though, at certain frame rates it becomes obsolete to get anymore FPS. I actually am kind of a hypocrite when it comes to FPS because I have VSYNC on all my games so I cap at 60.

To the point, though, Intel still stomps AMD in games - that is just the reality of the situation.

Also, PS2 is not single threaded.... its designed for quad cores. Again, AMD just sucks tongue.gif
post #265 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

And yet AMD owners only want new games benchmarked as people only play new games right? And old games don't matter rolleyes.gif

So from that point of view, we should throw Quake 3 into these reviews? 99.9% of single threaded games can easily be maxed on any current processor. I fail to see why they are brought into the discussion when we have new games that actually push the cpus and are far better to judge with. Technology isn't going backwards. Game engines are no different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3st3r View Post

Its a bit of a stretch to say what you're saying but I can see where you're coming from. The problem is that by the time 8 core games become the mainstream from the upcoming consoles (which I predict they will) the current FX series will be long gone and will not be worth buying. You're basically saying that you're buying a less than ideal processor NOW so you can reap the benefits later which I think to be lousy logic. .

Indeed. However, at the time of my build the FX-8 was the better choice for me due to my workload and budget. I was willing to take the lightly threaded hit because any older games I played I could max anyways so I opted for multithreaded performance being that many of my programs used it and knowing that newer programs will as well. On top of that, I've always been a fan of 'playing it safe' with cpu's, just in case I can't afford an upgrade for a long while.

People mocked me when I went to an x2 4200+ when most games were single threaded. Yet that dual core lasted me a lot longer (till 2011) than my brother's single core (and much more expensive) FX-53 lasted.

Even a q6600 is still a decent cpu for modern games, especially with an OC on it.
Edited by SoloCamo - 1/25/13 at 10:52am
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post #266 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

For me it looks like he has the absolute lowest 7970 quad fire score in a benchmark that's generally regarded as needing next to no CPU power.

45fps from the top. tms also ran the bench at the same clocks as red in the sabertooth pci-e 3.0 thread, results didn't surprise, he got about the same fps with three 7970s as red did with 4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

For me it looks like he has the absolute lowest 7970 quad fire score in a benchmark that's generally regarded as needing next to no CPU power.

45fps from the top. tms also ran the bench at the same clocks as red in the sabertooth pci-e 3.0 thread, results didn't surprise, he got about the same fps with three 7970s as red did with 4.

There is also a guy using the same setup as tms and was 32 fps behind him... Red is like the only person with that setup, that is running that benchmark. It's like cool runnings lmao.... if one team from jamaica was that good, imagine if they had the selection of bobsledders that bigger countries have.
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post #267 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by j3st3r View Post

Lol playable frame rates is all subjective man. Go to the 120Hz monitor post and try to run your logic by them - they won't buy it. I agree with you though, at certain frame rates it becomes obsolete to get anymore FPS. I actually am kind of a hypocrite when it comes to FPS because I have VSYNC on all my games so I cap at 60.

To the point, though, Intel still stomps AMD in games - that is just the reality of the situation.

Also, PS2 is not single threaded.... its designed for quad cores. Again, AMD just sucks tongue.gif

I think it heavily relies on one core iirc
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post #268 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So from that point of view, we should throw Quake 3 into these reviews? 99.9% of single threaded games can easily be maxed on any current processor. I fail to see why they are brought into the discussion when we have new games that actually push the cpus and are far better to judge with. Technology isn't going backwards. Game engines are no different.

Dude, the biggest problem with reviews is that they only concentrate on the average framerate and not the framerate that matters, the minimum...

AMD CPU's produce low minimum FPS in single/dual threaded games because they have a low IPC.

That is just pure fact and a result of own personal experience...

And why bring old games into the mix? Did you not see the STEAM games chart? People are STILL PLAYING OLD GAMES...

The only modern games that have really really good multi-threading support if BF3 and Crysis 2, they are 2 shing examples of multi-threading done right..
post #269 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

So from that point of view, we should throw Quake 3 into these reviews? 99.9% of single threaded games can easily be maxed on any current processor. I fail to see why they are brought into the discussion when we have new games that actually push the cpus and are far better to judge with. Technology isn't going backwards. Game engines are no different.

Yes, Quake 3 should be thrown into the mix. We are testing CPUs here so you fire up a good single threaded game, set the resolution to 800x600 and detail as low as it will go, and bask in the results. We are not testing the game...we are testing the CPUs. So if one CPU was running Quake 3 at a 800x600 resolution at 150fps and the other at 300 fps this would tell us that one CPU had double the single thread performance of the other (in reality you need to do several games and average them to rule out any code reasons).

If all you want to do max out any game today at 1080p at 60fps...get your self a cheap dual core (or preferably a AMD "APU") and team it up with a GPU that can do it. That requires no testing and no one wants to see benches of that. In this thread we are interested in CPU benchmarks and not how well a game engine will run. So it isn't really what they are running, but how it ran...new or old software doesn't make a lot of difference unless you are testing a specific instruction set or something. As long as there is a good range of different software tested you should get good results.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 1/25/13 at 10:59am
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post #270 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post


There is also a guy using the same setup as tms and was 32 fps behind him... Red is like the only person with that setup, that is running that benchmark. It's like cool runnings lmao.... if one team from jamaica was that good, imagine if they had the selection of bobsledders that bigger countries have.

UNOE's score is almost 6 months older than red's. The drivers were completely different. 12.11 got a huge boost (along with extra stuttering but lets not start with that) so even UNOE would jump further up with a newer driver set.
 
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