Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire - Page 33

post #321 of 595
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


Also, remember, that's using stress tests, the real world would show less power consumption for both brands.

That doesn't change the fact that AMD setup have a higher peak power draw thus have less headroom with overvolting given the same PSU( in that case with the 760W PSU FX setup don't have as much room to OV the 7970).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

If you truly cared about power consumption then you'd lose at most 200Mhz, have power saving features enabled and save a good 50w when you're browsing the internet like now. 200Mhz (I'd honestly be surprised if you lost any speed truth be told) is nothing for normal use in terms of CPU performance differences, that's what I'm saying...Half the people who are complaining about power usage in FX or Fermi don't really give much of a crap about it, they're just complaining because they have to prove their Phenom II or their Sandy Bridge or their Ivy Bridge is better in every respect than Bulldozer.

.

I wish I could save that 50W and have my CPU generate 42 Watt of electricity instead biggrin.gif, I use power saving features, just saying it was perfectly fair to turn them off while testing an OC or benchmarking:



While I agree that FX/Tahiti XT power consumption have been used too often as a counter to make one feel better about their purchasing of a competitive product.
Edited by sherlock - 1/25/13 at 6:08pm
Skylake 1080 FTW
(18 items)
 
XPS 15
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6700K  ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger EVGA 1080 FTW TridentZ DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung SM951 128GB Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB Muskin Reactor 1TB Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro  Acer XB321HK 32" 4K G-sync 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Rapid Fire EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 NZXT H440 Black Logitech G900  
Mouse PadOther
Razer Vespula CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Syst... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-7700HQ 2.8Ghz(3.8Ghz Turbo) Dell XPS 15-9560 Nvidia GTX 1050 8GB DDR4-2400 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
256GB PCIE SSD Windows 10 Pro 15.6" 1080p 
  hide details  
Reply
Skylake 1080 FTW
(18 items)
 
XPS 15
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6700K  ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger EVGA 1080 FTW TridentZ DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung SM951 128GB Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB Muskin Reactor 1TB Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro  Acer XB321HK 32" 4K G-sync 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Rapid Fire EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 NZXT H440 Black Logitech G900  
Mouse PadOther
Razer Vespula CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Syst... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-7700HQ 2.8Ghz(3.8Ghz Turbo) Dell XPS 15-9560 Nvidia GTX 1050 8GB DDR4-2400 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
256GB PCIE SSD Windows 10 Pro 15.6" 1080p 
  hide details  
Reply
post #322 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I like how some of the people who were saying Fermi is fine back in the day are now complaining about AMDs power consumption when it's still somewhat less of a difference than Fermi vs RV870, especially if TH didn't do the voltages properly on that BD sample...And especially considering that FX will be half idle (4/8 cores sitting there doing nothing during gaming) most of the time anyway.
There used to be a difference, like chips would OC significantly worse with power saving features enabled but they're mostly gone now.
Most of the power saving features won't change much in the load graphs.
lol
I'm using a GTX 480 and power is really cheap in Canada, so it doesn't matter for me.

Yeah, I don't care because quite frankly...I won't miss the money, if I save money from going for an AMD CPU and benefiting elsewhere I'd already have spent it improving something else. (eg. IPS screen, larger resolution, larger SSD, more HDDs, etc)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

I wish I could save that 50W and have my CPU generate 42 Watt of electricity instead biggrin.gif, I use power saving features, just saying it was perfectly fair to turn them off while testing an OC or benchmarking:



While I agree that FX power consumption have been used too often as a counter to make one feel better about losing multi-thread performance. I disagree that the power consumption difference is irrelevant in debating 3770K vs 8350.

I agree for the most part, have it as simple as possible while stress testing, I even disable virtualization, IOMMU, etc, but in a review case when you've got both CPUs at an easy OC (I can literally set 4.4Ghz with minimal or no overvoltage on my FX and i5) so it should be enabled, especially for idle numbers...It's like how Anand test Sysmark, or how some people test games at low resolution, you can get some ideas of performance from it but you're not going to get the true story unless you test real-world stuff.

It really is...This is with two GPUs, if you have a 750w PSU you'll be fine, most people go overboard with PSUs anyway. Believe me, I know about being careful with OVing a Tahiti, 500w PSUs are insanely tight when you're running 3 HDDs, 2 SSDs, etc all on one.
Edited by Brutuz - 1/25/13 at 6:20pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
post #323 of 595
Thread Starter 
Just had this random thought:

3570K is like a Black/White Laser Printer
FX-8350 is like a Color InkJet
3770K is like a Color Laser Printer

Gaming performance is like page per minute
Encoding performance is like printing in color(this doesn't fit exactly)
Power consumption is the ink/cartridge cost
Skylake 1080 FTW
(18 items)
 
XPS 15
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6700K  ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger EVGA 1080 FTW TridentZ DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung SM951 128GB Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB Muskin Reactor 1TB Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro  Acer XB321HK 32" 4K G-sync 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Rapid Fire EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 NZXT H440 Black Logitech G900  
Mouse PadOther
Razer Vespula CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Syst... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-7700HQ 2.8Ghz(3.8Ghz Turbo) Dell XPS 15-9560 Nvidia GTX 1050 8GB DDR4-2400 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
256GB PCIE SSD Windows 10 Pro 15.6" 1080p 
  hide details  
Reply
Skylake 1080 FTW
(18 items)
 
XPS 15
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-6700K  ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger EVGA 1080 FTW TridentZ DDR4-3000 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung SM951 128GB Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB Muskin Reactor 1TB Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Seagate Baracuda 2TB ST2000DM001 HDD Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro  Acer XB321HK 32" 4K G-sync 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Rapid Fire EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 NZXT H440 Black Logitech G900  
Mouse PadOther
Razer Vespula CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD - PFC Sinewave UPS Syst... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-7700HQ 2.8Ghz(3.8Ghz Turbo) Dell XPS 15-9560 Nvidia GTX 1050 8GB DDR4-2400 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
256GB PCIE SSD Windows 10 Pro 15.6" 1080p 
  hide details  
Reply
post #324 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Just had this random thought:

3570K is like a Black/White Laser Printer
FX-8350 is like a Color InkJet
3770K is like a Color Laser Printer

Gaming performance is like page per minute
Encoding performance is like printing in color(this doesn't fit exactly)
Power consumption is the ink/cartridge cost
That's a terrible analogy.

I'll give it a try:
The 3570k is like four Arnold Schwarzeneggers that can only lift with one arm
The 3770k is like four Arnold Schwarzeneggers that can lift with both arms
and the 8350 is like eight Edward Nortons (no idea why I chose him) who can lift with both arms

maximums possible weight lifted is like encoding performance
number of people is power consumption
and swag is game performance
post #325 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Do I have to drag out the CPUz validations of my i5 and my FX again? You're talking out of your rear end if you think that AMD has significantly lower minimum FPS than Intel.

Sure, I'll start.....

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2039999

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2314419

They were 24/7 over clocks....
post #326 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Do I have to drag out the CPUz validations of my i5 and my FX again? You're talking out of your rear end if you think that AMD has significantly lower minimum FPS than Intel.

Sure, I'll start.....

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2039999

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2314419

They were 24/7 over clocks....

So instead of disproving what Brutuz says, you take the time to prove him right? If they were 24/7's, you wouldn't be running with 2GB of ram and a 6600 respectively, which means either you're A) trolling, or B) talking our your rear, as Brutuz so kindly put it. Neither helps your case here, so I assume you don't actually have a counterargument.
Forge
(17 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-5960X (4.625Ghz) ASUS X99-DELUXE/U3.1 2x AMD R9-FuryX 64GB Corsair Dominator Platinum (3000Mhz 8x8GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 512GB EK Predator 240 Windows 10 Enterprise x64 2x Acer XR341CK 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance K70 RGB Corsair AX1200 Thermaltake X9 Corsair Vengeance M65 RGB 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD700 Objective2+ODAC REV B Sound Blaster ZxR Audio Technica AT2020 
Audio
30ART Mic Tube Amp 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Reply
Forge
(17 items)
 
Forge-LT
(7 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-5960X (4.625Ghz) ASUS X99-DELUXE/U3.1 2x AMD R9-FuryX 64GB Corsair Dominator Platinum (3000Mhz 8x8GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 512GB EK Predator 240 Windows 10 Enterprise x64 2x Acer XR341CK 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance K70 RGB Corsair AX1200 Thermaltake X9 Corsair Vengeance M65 RGB 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD700 Objective2+ODAC REV B Sound Blaster ZxR Audio Technica AT2020 
Audio
30ART Mic Tube Amp 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-4720HQ UX501JW-UB71T GTX 960m 16GB 1600 9-9-9-27 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
512GB PCI-e SSD Windows 10 Pro 4k IPS 
  hide details  
Reply
post #327 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

So instead of disproving what Brutuz says, you take the time to prove him right? If they were 24/7's, you wouldn't be running with 2GB of ram and a 6600 respectively, which means either you're A) trolling, or B) talking our your rear, as Brutuz so kindly put it. Neither helps your case here, so I assume you don't actually have a counterargument.

People rolleyes.gif

They were run under phase and were ultimately run on a test bench why I did some case mods, hence the 6600 and 2Gb so please get you facts straight before you go into bash mode.

I've run high clocked AMD chips, heck with the increased IPC on Thuban it would be hard for a 5Ghz FX chip to keep up in gaming in regards to my 4.8Ghz 1075T

Min frame rates on AMD on most games are bad, some worse then others but when the on screen action heats up the AMD chips take a nose dive and the Intel chips hardly budge which is was I ultimately made the jump over to Intel.

This is what the system looked like before it was powder coated and before the RAM and GPU was swapped out.

post #328 of 595
look at this video and tell me if this is not true? this is a video made to prove wrong logans review... and look at the end what a pleasant surprise they found. AMD gaming as equal fps as your intel CPU.
post #329 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Also, testing games at low resolution shows literally nothing...Game engines act and behave completely differently to one another, all it tells you is that Quake 3 is faster at those settings on Intel than AMD, to get true results you'd still have to test the other games anyway, as they may manage to use the architecture more efficiently or many other possible things that pretty much makes low resolution gaming to test CPU differences a stupid thing to do.

You just made it clear that you have no business being involved in a CPU testing discussion. You know what happens when you turn up the resolution? You are then testing the GPU more than the CPU. At the low graphic settings (or even high settings on an old game) the GPU is not in the equation. The fps is entirely dependent the CPU. Granted it is also a worth while test to stress the CPU-GPU interaction and run high graphics tests as well, but the majority of the time you will see these tests ending up being a few fps apart so they don't often tell us anything.

and if you'd slow down spamming the quote button building your wall of text and actually read I also said that you have to test several games.
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
My System
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
2600K @ 4.7GHz Asus P8P67 B3 GTX 580 EVGA Hydro Copper 2 GTX 580 EVGA  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveOS
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws bunch of 'em Blu-Ray For movies Windows 8.1 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
24.4" Hans G HH251 X2 Yamakasi DS270  Blah 1000watt Super Flower 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Built into Desk Microsoft SideWinder X8 Comfy one... Creative Extreme Gamer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #330 of 595
I agree that turning down the resolution is typically the easiest way to get your results more CPU-bound. Otherwise the GPU will be your limiting factor and that won't tell you much about the CPU...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire