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[Tom's Hardware] FX Vs. Core i7: Exploring CPU Bottlenecks And AMD CrossFire - Page 7

post #61 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayleyne View Post

Having only glanced at the posted content (The op) I really don't see the FX 83xx being that far behind the core ix 3xxx

Well, the OP only posted results from Battlefield 3, which is unusually well threaded for a game, and not always representative of anything else.

If you look at the rest of the tests, we see that the FX-8350 usually is not a bottleneck at higher resolutions, but sometimes it is. F1 and Skyrim do notably better on the i7, even at 5760x1080.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

TH on trying to figure out an unbiased way to calculate value:
WRONG! SO WRONG!
Firstly: The majority of the system does not affect gaming performance even slightly, and thus should not be included in a performance/value calculation
Secondly: Assuming that the rest of the system is the same for everything except cpu/mobo, all they are doing is increasing the total cost used for the calculation. Which thereby creates a bias in favor of the more expensive cpu.

A CPU is not a system. A CPU and a motherboard is not a system.

This test was meant to show high-end gaming rigs, and CPU is only going to be a small part of total cost. In this scenario, you do get more value from spending an extra 100 dollars on the Intel part if you are building a complete system.

They also showed a CPU+mobo only chart, which is only going to be relevant if you already have everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post

In addition to that, they are overclocking both chips to the same speed, 4.4GHz in this case. And they are considering that fair. Here is a fact: Difference CPU architectures need difference clock speeds in order to be considered equal. Clocking two completely different chips to the same speed, will always give one or the other an advantage. That method of testing is fine, as long as you are only testing a single architecture. But otherwise, it is just a way to create a biased review.

The FX and 3rd gen i7s clock closely enough for this not to be a major issue. True, if they pushed both parts to the limit, you'd probably end up with a few hundred MHz more on the FX, but this is a small fraction of total clock speed, and would not significantly skew results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bedo View Post

I am not too up to speed with the different socket types used by AMD, but I think the price to performance comparison is flawed. You must take into consideration that AMD allows its users to simply upgrade processors without having to buy another motherboard, whereas keeping up with Intel processors requires you to purchase a new motherboard every year.

In this case, it would be more fair to measure price/performance over 2 or 3 generations of CPU's, which would really show the advantage of price to performance offered by AMD.

AM2, AM2+, AM3, and AM3+ are all, in one way or another, breaks in continuity of upgrade path.

Right now, If you have either a Sandy or a first generation FX (bulldozer) you can upgrade to the latests parts. If you have older parts, you often cannot, even on the AMD side of things.

I have AM3 boards that are barely two years old that I cannot drop Vishera into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindredice View Post

Yeah like +135 watts per hour doesn't cost extra money since extra cost is "extremely significant" to you.

Did you just say watts per hour?

Watts is already a rate of consumption. Watts per hours implies power consumption that increases over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill95 View Post

I find it absolutely hilarious that none of the intel fanboy who accused Logans review as being flawed due to GPU bottlenecks aren't even noticing that it's the same story here.... rolleyes.gif

You have completely missed the point of most of the complaints regarding that review.

And no one has missed the fact that most of the games in this test are GPU limited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

i7-3770K $330
Asus Sabertooth Z77 $240
$570

AMD FX-8350 $200
Asus Sabertooth 990FX $180
$380

Based on newegg pricing right now, thats $190 difference. That's pretty substantial. That's almost enough to go from a 7850 to a 7970. That's where things get interesting, budget constraints. i7 with 7850, or FX with 7970.

Your board comparison is silly.. Just because two boards are named Sabertooth does not make them equivalent.

I honestly cannot justify spending more than 150-175 dollars on an LGA-1155 board and no one looking for value would blow $240 on one. If anything, you need a more robust AM3+ board to OC an FX. My 2700k is in a 150 dollar board and my FX-8150 is in a 110 dollar board. The 2700k is not limited by it's board, but the cheaper board may well be limiting my 8150.

And of course, if you are looking at a single 7850 to a 7970 GPU, you are probably not looking at the 3770k for a gaming system, but a 3570k, at the most.

In the end, you have a toss up. A single GPU is not going to be significantly limited by either part, and both setups will cost similar amounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

BF3 and BC2 have shown that multi-threaded FPS games are the future. As that becomes more true, we will see more and more performance out of complex multi-core CPU's like the FX-8350.

Sure, but if you are buying an FX-8350 now, on the hopes that all games are going to become well threaded before the FX-8350 is old and significantly outclassed (even by AMDs own parts), you are probably going to be disappointed.

Future proofing is an exercise in futility, and I always recommend buying for the now, or immediate future.
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post #62 of 595
Quote:
Still isn't any reason to buy anything higher than a 3930k. Sad, lol biggrin.gif

Corrected! thumb.gif
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post #63 of 595
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post


Future proofing is an exercise in futility, and I always recommend buying for the now, or immediate future.

QFT thumb.gif
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post #64 of 595
Some of those results are flat out dreadful....
post #65 of 595
Intel > amd

Nothing new here
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post #66 of 595
I think of reviews like this every time I read some uneducated fanboy say something like "I would never own an AMD processor" or "Only Intel for gaming" These nuggets of wisdom are all over these forums and they all wreak of stupidity.

Good to see AMD hold its own against the 3770k.
post #67 of 595
AMD chose such an intensive game ONLY & nothing else, then ran it at some pathetically mindblowing resolution to bog down any quad SLI/XFIRE setup to cover the sheer difference in CPU power... some disappointing "benchmark" & they should of included their Thuban X6 in there too..
     
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post #68 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by sikkly View Post

But how much more money are you spending to pay for the power of running that AMD CPU? It obviously varies a massive amount for everyone based on location and usage, but I wouldn't be surprised if over say, 2 years, the AMD catches up due to electricity costs. I just find it interesting that so many people talk about price without ever thinking about how much they are paying, on a daily basis, to use their computer.

Honestly didn't think about it. Generally if someone is under such a budget constraint they can't spend another $150 on an Intel setup I would assume they are college or high school students that don't pay electricity and it wouldn't matter.

However, I was curious, so I found this site to get a guess how much money it costs to run a computer.

The intel would run about $90 a year.

The AMD would run $109 a year.

Around 18% savings in electricity (which is the same as 622w vs 750w). By those measures it would take 7 years to recoup the cost difference.

This is just one example and I understand far from definitive, just my thoughts on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Your board comparison is silly.. Just because two boards are named Sabertooth does not make them equivalent.

I already explained in a previous post, I chose them because that's what the review used. I picked different boards in the other post and the difference was substantially lower. I still stand by the AMD platform is cheaper, and by enough that someone on a strict budget very likely could get a better GPU and therefore better gaming experience by going the AMD route.
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post #69 of 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

Honestly didn't think about it. Generally if someone is under such a budget constraint they can't spend another $150 on an Intel setup I would assume they are college or high school students that don't pay electricity and it wouldn't matter.

However, I was curious, so I found this site to get a guess how much money it costs to run a computer.

The intel would run about $90 a year.

The AMD would run $109 a year.

Around 18% savings in electricity (which is the same as 622w vs 750w). By those measures it would take 7 years to recoup the cost difference.

This is just one example and I understand far from definitive, just my thoughts on it.
I already explained in a previous post, I chose them because that's what the review used. I picked different boards in the other post and the difference was substantially lower. I still stand by the AMD platform is cheaper, and by enough that someone on a strict budget very likely could get a better GPU and therefore better gaming experience by going the AMD route.

Or, if you're like me and live close to Microcenter you can grab a 2500k for $140 and save $50 over going with AMD setup. If you're just gaming, there's really no compelling reason why you wouldn't.
post #70 of 595
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepheroth003 View Post

Honestly didn't think about it. Generally if someone is under such a budget constraint they can't spend another $150 on an Intel setup I would assume they are college or high school students that don't pay electricity and it wouldn't matter.

However, I was curious, so I found this site to get a guess how much money it costs to run a computer.

The intel would run about $90 a year.

The AMD would run $109 a year.

Around 18% savings in electricity (which is the same as 622w vs 750w). By those measures it would take 7 years to recoup the cost difference.

You did not consider that the Intel setup could be run on a $20 cheaper 650W PSU or given the same 760W Seasonic PSU the Intel clearly have more power headroom to OC the whole system (CPU or Overvolt the 7970s),
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