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are these normal temps for a i7 3930k under h80i? - Page 2

post #11 of 22
I'd start at 1.35 VCore at a clock of 4.6GHz (since I know that it's reliable on my CPU), and walk the VCore up to 1.4, if needed.

...

Edit:

Sorry, didn't see your last post.

It sounds like you have a poorer performing CPU, motherboard, or something similar. Still, try not to go over 1.4 VCore. You really shouldn't need to. And if you do, like I said, you might want to consider lowering your OC instead of raising the VCore.
Edited by Wrend - 1/26/13 at 9:32am
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post #12 of 22
75c under Cinebench is too high.
I get max 62-64c under Cinebench & 75-78c under Prime95 running overnight (in a hot room).

So if you run Prime95, most likely your CPU will hit above 85c & start to throttle down....
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post #13 of 22
Yeah. I'd start by at least lowering the VCore to 1.4 and see where the temps are at.

From what I've heard though, the H80 isn't the best of liquid coolers out there.
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post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

hmm, the ivy bridge quads are the ones with the crappy paste, btw.

And for a hexacore at such voltage, i think its good, just wondering what others got temp-wise. yes, the stock fan is on the rad.

its not the "crappy" tim, its the distance between the die and ihs thats causing ivy's to run hot smile.gif

Ah, that so? Someone could enlighten me on that as I do have an 3770k, and its temps are worse, idle 32c to load 80c. It is under the H60 cooler though, with a skinny radiator. But it had to fit in the bitfenix prodigy somehow.

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post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXXon View Post

75c under Cinebench is too high.
I get max 62-64c under Cinebench & 75-78c under Prime95 running overnight (in a hot room).

So if you run Prime95, most likely your CPU will hit above 85c & start to throttle down....

Ok... do I have to change LLC or something, other settings I can alter?

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post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

Ah, that so? Someone could enlighten me on that as I do have an 3770k, and its temps are worse, idle 32c to load 80c. It is under the H60 cooler though, with a skinny radiator. But it had to fit in the bitfenix prodigy somehow.

it doesnt really matter what cooler you have, if it runs hot, it does so even with a good cooler,

the adhesive between the ihs and the pcb makes that the distance between the die and ihs is "big",
now the tim has to bridge the gap, which it can do initially, but after a while the intel tim starts to pump out,
which is known as the pump out effect..
leaving a even bigger gap between die and ihs, you can see that very well on a just delidded ivy,
you see theres more tim around the die , then on it (inside ihs)

some notes,
pump out effect
Basic concept

"Large and fast decreases in temperature when coupled with HLT instructions.
A usage pattern that alternates between full idle and full load conditions
will cause die temps to swing WIDE AND FAST, particularly with overclocked/overvolted CPUs.

This thermal cycling causes TIM pump-out, wherein the TIM gets ejected and displaced by air,
which is of course not a good thing.

Greases also creep, again worsening the situation."

I think this happens more often with IB because of how quick it heats up and cools off.
The die contact area is so small with such drastic temperatures is another reason



thats one reason ivy runs hot, right away, or after a while usage,
another is, the pic isnt really to scale etc, but to use as a example for now ok, smile.gif

the adhesive makes that theres a distance also between the die and ihs,
after you delid it, and clean the adhesive from the pcb and ihs, the gap will be gone,

the ihs will rest on the die, as you can see in my avatar, its the ihs spinning freely in the die,
no more gap, problem solved, if you would use the same tim intel uses, you would see about 10C(AS5 is about the same)
tempdrop, and the sometimes big temp difference between cores will be less to,
before delid, the difference i had was about 15C, hottest, coolest core, after delid , it was 4-6C..


well, before i make this post to long ..lol
i hope it helps you understand why ivy runs hot biggrin.gif
Edited by VonDutch - 1/26/13 at 11:47am
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post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

it doesnt really matter what cooler you have, if it runs hot, it does so even with a good cooler,

the adhesive between the ihs and the pcb makes that the distance between the die and ihs is "big",
now the tim has to bridge the gap, which it can do initially, but after a while the intel tim starts to pump out,
which is known as the pump out effect..
leaving a even bigger gap between die and ihs, you can see that very well on a just delidded ivy,
you see theres more tim around the die , then on it (inside ihs)

some notes,
pump out effect
Basic concept

"Large and fast decreases in temperature when coupled with HLT instructions.
A usage pattern that alternates between full idle and full load conditions
will cause die temps to swing WIDE AND FAST, particularly with overclocked/overvolted CPUs.

This thermal cycling causes TIM pump-out, wherein the TIM gets ejected and displaced by air,
which is of course not a good thing.

Greases also creep, again worsening the situation."

I think this happens more often with IB because of how quick it heats up and cools off.
The die contact area is so small with such drastic temperatures is another reason



thats one reason ivy runs hot, right away, or after a while usage,
another is, the pic isnt really to scale etc, but to use as a example for now ok, smile.gif

the adhesive makes that theres a distance also between the die and ihs,
after you delid it, and clean the adhesive from the pcb and ihs, the gap will be gone,

the ihs will rest on the die, as you can see in my avatar, its the ihs spinning freely in the die,
no more gap, problem solved, if you would use the same tim intel uses, you would see about 10C(AS5 is about the same)
tempdrop, and the sometimes big temp difference between cores will be less to,
before delid, the difference i had was about 15C, hottest, coolest core, after delid , it was 4-6C..


well, before i make this post to long ..lol
i hope it helps you understand why ivy runs hot biggrin.gif

0_0... why would intel cheap out like that? That does not bode well at ALL for the future of my 3770k... at least i got the 3930k without that BS.

Btw, i lowerer voltage to 1.415 and altered LLC to "high" on the gigabyte mobo, while matching voltage of IMC to the CPU.



5-7c reduction. Not bad.
     
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post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

0_0... why would intel cheap out like that? That does not bode well at ALL for the future of my 3770k... at least i got the 3930k without that BS.

Btw, i lowerer voltage to 1.415 and altered LLC to "high" on the gigabyte mobo, while matching voltage of IMC to the CPU.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

5-7c reduction. Not bad.

i guess we will never know ..lol smile.gif
sandy was soldered, now they decided to use tim instead ..
on the other hand, we can delid , and play around under the hood ..lol
after delid, tempdrops of 20-30C are almost normal ..
Edited by VonDutch - 1/26/13 at 12:05pm
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post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrend View Post

VCore is not the load, it's the voltage. Lets try and keep the terminology correct here so we don't confuse people even more. thumb.gif

There is nothing wrong with my terminology.

I didn't say vcore, but if you want to be nitpicky, vcore is actually the voltage delivered to the CPU cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

This thermal cycling causes TIM pump-out, wherein the TIM gets ejected and displaced by air,
which is of course not a good thing.

Greases also creep, again worsening the situation."

I think this happens more often with IB because of how quick it heats up and cools off.
The die contact area is so small with such drastic temperatures is another reason



thats one reason ivy runs hot, right away, or after a while usage,

This isn't right.

If there was a gap not filled by TIM, the CPU would shut down almost immediately, not just run warm at load. Indeed your own images of the de-lid show there is no air gap.

Also, when an IHS is initially attached, it's hotter than at any operational temperature. The TIM around the die is simply because they apply a large amount, then compress a hot IHS onto it, not because of later pump out. It's much safer to use more than you need than not enough.

The whole reason high viscosity putty/gap filler is used is to prevent pump out from thermal cycling.

You are absolutely correct about the gap between the die and IHS being too great, but this just means that the TIM bondline is thicker than ideal, not that there is ever an appreciable air gap (unless you've been submerging your chip in solvent).

Your second image might be relevant for something like the NT-H1 featured, especially if it's not applied in sufficient quantity, but it does not apply to the stock TIM.
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post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

There is nothing wrong with my terminology.

I didn't say vcore, but if you want to be nitpicky, vcore is actually the voltage delivered to the CPU cores.
This isn't right.

If there was a gap not filled by TIM, the CPU would shut down almost immediately, not just run warm at load. Indeed your own images of the de-lid show there is no air gap.

Also, when an IHS is initially attached, it's hotter than at any operational temperature. The TIM around the die is simply because they apply a large amount, then compress a hot IHS onto it, not because of later pump out. It's much safer to use more than you need than not enough.

The whole reason high viscosity putty/gap filler is used is to prevent pump out from thermal cycling.

You are absolutely correct about the gap between the die and IHS being too great, but this just means that the TIM bondline is thicker than ideal, not that there is ever an appreciable air gap (unless you've been submerging your chip in solvent).

Your second image might be relevant for something like the NT-H1 featured, especially if it's not applied in sufficient quantity, but it does not apply to the stock TIM.

thanks, i will rethink my answers, its hard to explain the "gap" between the die and the ihs..
the adhesive causes the distance tho, when you clean it off after delid, the distance is gone,
the ihs resting on the die, temps will drop, difference in temps between the cores will be less too smile.gif


EDIT,
hey Blameless, i asked idontcare over at anandtech about what i said/explained wrong in my post,
i hate to give wrong answers, so my exuses to OP also, sorry..
anyways, i asked him to come and have a look at our posts, and tell me what i did wrong


Hi VonDutch smile.gif

Hey, I recognize your avatar wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Happy to help. If I have correctly interpreted the situation in the OCN thread then I suspect there is a very simply explanation for the outcome.

In my opinion I believe your linked post went off-course when you wrote the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch 
...but after a while the intel tim starts to pump out,...
As Blameless subsequently stated, I do not think the stock Intel CPU TIM suffers from pumpout. The stock Intel CPU TIM used under the IHS was not all that flexible or deformable, when I removed it from the IHS it had the consistency of solid plastic as I recall.

If you review the pictures embedded in this post, paying close attention to the shape of the "TIM shavings" in the following picture, you'll see how I had to use a razor blade to "dice" the shavings because it was like cutting plastic.



The Intel stock CPU TIM is more like a solid pad, a spacer, that isn't likely to suffer from pump-out effect. In fact I expect Intel would have intentionally chosen the specific TIM they currently use on the basis that it does not suffer from pump-out. They would be fools not to factor this into their selection criteria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless 
Your second image might be relevant for something like the NT-H1 featured, especially if it's not applied in sufficient quantity, but it does not apply to the stock TIM.

As Blameless states in his linked post, the images you were using to convey pump-out effects were indeed created to speak to the pump-out effect that we think is going on with replacement TIMs like NT-H1 and AS5. The air gap is not expected to form with the stock TIM, but with more gel-like TIMs such as MX-4 and so forth.

It is also expected that the diamond-paste TIMs (IC Diamond) will avoid pump-out on the basis of published results on the subject.

So, if I were to summarize this I would state the following:

The temperature issue with stock desktop Ivy Bridge CPUs is solely due to the TIM-filled gap present between the CPU and the underside of the IHS (as proven here), and is not at all related to the pump-out effect. However, enthusiasts who delid their Ivy Bridge CPUs and replace the stock Intel CPU TIM with a gel-like substitute (NT-H1, AS5, MX-4, etc) and put the IHS back onto the CPU package do so with the added risk of then creating a situation in which the pump-out effect comes into play months later as their substitute TIM is pumped out from between the CPU and IHS and the resultant air-gap creates unacceptable temperatures once again.

The pump-out effect can be avoided by using a replacement TIM that is not susceptible to pump-out issues. IC Diamond, Liquid Pro, and Liquid Ultra are examples of replacement TIMs that are not expected to suffer from pump-out. (liquid ultra will pump-out on heating, but owing to its surface tension and liquid nature the liquid ultra is expected to "pump back in" when the CPU cools, resulting in no net pump-out effect over time...the same cannot be said of the gel-like TIMs which are not liquid enough to pump back into the air gap under the influence of their own surface tension forces)

Does this make sense to you? Does it seem reasonable?

All the best,
- Phil (aka IDC)[/QUOTE]


again sorry, i stand corrected smile.gif
Edited by VonDutch - 1/27/13 at 10:19am
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