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post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

The FX-8350 is unlocked and trades blows with the Core i5 3570K. So why should he even consider something like a Core i5 3470? AM3+ is projected to be around for a 2014 Steamroller release, AMD released a statement saying FM2 will have 3 years of life in it and LGA 2011 will be getting Ivy Bridge-E, so I would argue that only LGA 1155 is in that particular situation of where I would not recommend it.

1) Because a locked i5 is cheaper than an (overclocked) fx-8350 and will provide as good or better gaming performance in most games where CPU matters. Not to mention being cheaper means, you know, getting a better video card.

2) It's stupid to base your whole platform decision on the idea you MIGHT re-use one part. Particularly when going that route choice costs you money up front.

Take the 2011 example, for instance. It'd be down-right foolish to buy an i7-3820 & a socket-2011 mobo when you can get an i7-3770k & a z77 mobo for cheaper. Yes, IB-E will be released on the 2011 socket, and no new upgrades will be released on 1155. But it is ALREADY dumb to buy an expensive processor with the idea you're going to replace it in less than a year's time. And paying MORE for LESS performance (the i7-3820 & socket 2011 mobo vs i7-3770k vs z77 mobo example) now does not make replacing your brand new i7 one year later any better.


Look, I'm not hating on AM3+ here. If the OP hasn't purchased his PSU yet, or can return it so he can get a model that has enough juice to overclock an AMD fx-chip, then getting an fx-6300 and overclocking that is reasonable. Equivalent in performance & price with the locked i5 in gaming. But getting an fx-8350 is just not cost-efficient for gaming unless you wildly pretend there's going to be some 100% going-to-be-used future savings. Which is what you're doing.

P.S. But I do agree that anyone who's happy with their computer's performance now (e.g. does not mind waiting 5 months) should be aware of Haswell.
Edited by MisterFred - 1/26/13 at 10:18pm
    
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post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
is FM2 only for apu's?
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post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzamples View Post

is FM2 only for apu's?

Actually, no. The new Athlon II x4 chips are FM2, I believe. (Though in a way the answer is yes, as the new Athlon II x4s are really just APUs with disabled integrated graphics.)

From a gaming perspective, there's not a lot of scenarios where you'd want one though. If you were in a very specific budget scenario where you had enough for a discrete GPU (e.g. more money than where an APU system made sense) and didn't have enough $ for an fx-6300 build, AND prioritized some of the very few games that heavily favor 4 true threads (so the Athlon II x4 could match an i3's performance, where most games it would not), then it could make sense.
Edited by MisterFred - 1/26/13 at 10:35pm
    
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post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

1) Because a locked i5 is cheaper than an (overclocked) fx-8350 and will provide as good or better gaming performance in most games where CPU matters. Not to mention being cheaper means, you know, getting a better video card.

2) It's stupid to base your whole platform decision on the idea you MIGHT re-use one part. Particularly when going that route choice costs you money up front.

Take the 2011 example, for instance. It'd be down-right foolish to buy an i7-3820 & a socket-2011 mobo when you can get an i7-3770k & a z77 mobo for cheaper. Yes, IB-E will be released on the 2011 socket, and no new upgrades will be released on 1155. But it is ALREADY dumb to buy an expensive processor with the idea you're going to replace it in less than a year's time. And paying MORE for LESS performance (the i7-3820 & socket 2011 mobo vs i7-3770k vs z77 mobo example) now does not make replacing your brand new i7 one year later any better.


Look, I'm not hating on AM3+ here. If the OP hasn't purchased his PSU yet, or can return it so he can get a model that has enough juice to overclock an AMD fx-chip, then getting an fx-6300 and overclocking that is reasonable. Equivalent in performance & price with the locked i5 in gaming. But getting an fx-8350 is just not cost-efficient for gaming unless you wildly pretend there's going to be some 100% going-to-be-used future savings. Which is what you're doing.

P.S. But I do agree that anyone who's happy with their computer's performance now (e.g. does not mind waiting 5 months) should be aware of Haswell.


First of all, this is an enthusiast website. We like to have open pathways to upgrading our systems. The large majority of us WILL purchase the next-gen CPU and keep our current motherboard so long as it's compatible. Look at the amount of people running Z68 motherboards with 3570K's and 3770K's in them. Then consider the amount of people who will purchase the 3820 (For the Quad Channel memory support, 40 PCI-E lanes) that will purchase an Ivy Bridge-E chip later. People like to have options.



How much more will he pay for the FX-8350 than the Core i5 3470?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115234

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284


None. He will get better rendering, encoding and encrypting speeds with the FX-8350, a POTENTIAL upgrade path, the ability to overclock and essentially the same PCI Express bandwidth assuming he picks up a 990FX motherboard. (990FX has 40 PCI-E 2.0 lanes which is the equivalence to 20 PCI-E 3.0 lanes)
Edited by M3T4LM4N222 - 1/26/13 at 10:30pm
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post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

Actually, no. The new Athlon II x4 chips are FM2, I believe.

From a gaming perspective, there's not a lot of scenarios where you'd want one though. If you were in a very specific budget scenario where you had enough for a discrete GPU (e.g. more money than where an APU system made sense) and didn't have enough $ for an fx-6300 build, AND prioritized some of the very few games that heavily favor 4 true threads (so the Athlon II x4 could match an i3's performance, where most games it would not), then it could make sense.

are other chips besides the athlon II x4 come out for the fm2 ?
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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by xzamples View Post

are other chips besides the athlon II x4 come out for the fm2 ?

Probably not. Though it seems certain that the next gen APUs will be on the FM2 system. (And therefore the next gen Athlon II x4s.)
    
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post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

How much more will he pay for the FX-8350 than the Core i5 3470?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115234

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284


None. He will get better rendering, encoding and encrypting speeds with the FX-8350, a POTENTIAL upgrade path, the ability to overclock and essentially the same PCI Express bandwidth assuming he picks up a 990FX motherboard. (990FX has 40 PCI-E 2.0 lanes which is the equivalence to 20 PCI-E 3.0 lanes)

First. I thought he said he was gaming, not an art student or a research scientist or encrpyting data. Second, I find it highly suspect you would recommend overclocking an fx-8350 on a $62 motherboard using the AMD stock cooler. That does not seem like a good idea.
    
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post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

First. I thought he said he was gaming, not an art student or a research scientist or encrpyting data. Second, I find it highly suspect you would recommend overclocking an fx-8350 on a $62 motherboard using the AMD stock cooler. That does not seem like a good idea.


If he is gaming, the FX-8350 is STILL a solid choice. It's not like the FX-8350 will bottleneck any modern GPU or modern MULTI-GPU setup at that. I never suggested he overclock using a stock CPU cooler. I'm simply stating that IF he wants to overclock, the options there. He could get an aftermarket cooler down the road.. The ASrock 990FX Extreme4 is a perfectly capable motherboard for overclocking, so there's absolutely no issues there.

I find it "SUSPECT" that you're arguing that he purchases a CPU that won't overclock and that's being pushes out of the market in order to somehow "Save money" I don't see how purchasing a $200 CPU rather than a $200 CPU = savings. That's like me saying AMD uses a recycled coffee tin for their CPU packaging therefor it's a better choice.
Edited by M3T4LM4N222 - 1/26/13 at 10:56pm
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post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

I never suggested he overclock using a stock CPU cooler. I'm simply stating that IF he wants to overclock, the options there. He could get an aftermarket cooler down the road.. The ASrock 990FX Extreme4 is a perfectly capable motherboard for overclocking, so there's absolutely no issues there.

I find it "SUSPECT" that you're arguing that he purchases a CPU that won't overclock and that's being pushes out of the market in order to somehow "Save money"

First of all, he really should overclock any fx-chip if he gets it. That's a big part of their value. And a non-overclocked fx-chip is inferior to a locked i5 in a fair number of games where CPU matters.

Second:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

i5-3350P (note the P means no integrated graphics) - $180
MSI mATX B75 - $62
CPU Cooler - Intel stock cooler - $0 (Compare the total CPU+mobo+cpu cooler to the 8350 option you were considering & remember you can also stick with the PSU you have).
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

How much more will he pay for the FX-8350 than the Core i5 3470?
None.

I hope you see the source of my confusion.

DO THE MATH.

The system you are recommending is $112 more expensive than the one I'm recommending. That's over $100. As in at least two whole tiers worse in GPU. For what? A few options the OP won't use on his motherboard? Slightly better... encrypting times? And he still needs to spend MORE for a cooler for a good overclock.

Look I understand enthusiast. That's why I clearly specified my suggestions were for gaming cost-efficiency, not recreational overclocking. But dude, stop pretending mobo cost is irrelevant.

You know what, the i5 can't be overclocked. But if you're a gamer and not a recreational overclocker, you don't care. Because it runs games well. Yes, a newer generation will be out in 6 months. But you know what, there's no doomsday switch that shuts down Ivy Bridge CPUs when the next generation comes out. They still work.
Edited by MisterFred - 1/26/13 at 11:08pm
    
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post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

First of all, he really should overclock any fx-chip if he gets it. That's a big part of their value. And a non-overclocked fx-chip is inferior to a locked i5 in a fair number of games where CPU matters.

Second:

I hope you see the source of my confusion.

DO THE MATH.

The system you are recommending is $112 more expensive than the one I'm recommending. That's over $100. As in at least two whole tiers worse in GPU. For what? A few options the OP won't use on his motherboard? Slightly better... encrypting times? And he still needs to spend MORE for a cooler for a good overclock.

Look I understand enthusiast. That's why I clearly specified my suggestions were for gaming cost-efficiency, not recreational overclocking. But dude, stop pretending mobo cost is irrelevant.

You know what, the i5 can't be overclocked. But if you're a gamer and not a recreational overclocker, you don't care. Because it runs games well. Yes, a newer generation will be out in 6 months. But you know what, there's no doomsday switch that shuts down Ivy Bridge CPUs when the next generation comes out. They still work.


I'm not pretending. I didn't see your suggested motherboard, all I saw was that the OP wanted to use a 990FX Extreme4 in his build. However he could plop the FX-8350 into a $64 motherboard and purchase the same GPU you suggested, so I still don't see what you're getting at. Would I personally suggest overclocking a processor on a $64 motherboard? No, however with the FX-8350 option it's still a possibility.
Edited by M3T4LM4N222 - 1/26/13 at 11:16pm
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