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post #31 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedroc1999 View Post

After 4.6, every chip starts to needs some serious vCore to get it going, it is breaking a 'Barrier' as it starts to get into 1GHz + from stock. Most chips will stop at about 4.5 - 4.65 due to it simply being too much. A 3770k will problably only need 1.25-1.35 to get to 4.5, if not less, but it will need 1.45-1.5+ to get over 5.0.

At 1.5 the CPU life starts to get shortened, this is due to extreme over-voltage. And the next obstacle is temperature, a 212Evo will get the CPU to 4.5 with reasonable temperatures, but aftervthat the temperatures will rise quickly and you will need a cooler like a H80i or H100i, but to get to 5.0, considering you got a good chip, you will most likely need a custom open-loop water cooler.

Ivy Bridge CPUs also have another thing limiting you, the IHS, or also know as the silver heatsink that is on the top part of the CPU, Intel made poor decision and filled the inside with poor quality thermal paste, with changing it you will only get to about 4.65 as the thermal paste will simply not be good enough to get higher. The only option is delidding your CPU, this is a dangerous action and requires a very still hand, there have been many cases of the person pushing it too far and just make contact with the inside can kill you chip.

I hope you take the above into consideration and also, Sandy Bridge does not need delidding as the stock thermal paste is high quality. Good luck in making your decision.

You did ask for a review tongue.gif

1 - You can't generalise like that every chip is different and also who clocks at 4.65GHz? Your voltages again don't generalise (for example my 3570k can make 4.6 on 1.2 http://cdn.overclock.net/9/93/93988167_wprime_results.png )

2 - H80 or H100i are no more likely to get you to 5.0 than big air. For that number custom loop and lose the lid the OP has a loop going anyway

3 - It's not "low quality paste" per se just its paste as opposed to solder

4 - Sandybridge didn't have paste it had fluxless solder.
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post #32 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedroc1999 View Post

Sorry, my phone isnt very good at dealling with paragraphs, does it look better now?

Much better.

As a rule of thumb, those "walls of text" tend to scare people away.

And the info looks pretty spot on. Although there are a few other factors that would dictate how far you can overclock a chip. Two being the motherboard and power supply used, as they're responsible for providing the "juice" needed by the processor. So I wouldn't say there's a given wall for every processor. It can vary from chip to chip, as well as other components used.
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post #33 of 61
I have edited it to include the new info, have a look now
     
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post #34 of 61
Thread Starter 
Sorry about the late reply, my last one was on lunch break at work. I'm in the Army and work in an IT section and have been swamped all day, so not a lot of free time at the moment.
First, thanks for all the replies! Even wall of texts, I don't mind a little reading especially if it helps me out. This is a lot of info and I am going to try and read it all and reply.

First off, OCZ 3 series seem to have an overall bad rep here, which I trust more than Newegg reviews. I will look into another brand and maybe I can find one on one of those weekend sales or something.
* How about this Samsung?

It looks like Samsung RAM is really good for OC, but I am not finding any on the egg. I'll keep looking before I settle on a cheaper 8GB set of Corsair or Gskill.

I thought about waiting for Haswell, but it looks like it wont come out for another 5-6 months and I really don't want to wait that long.
I know every chip overclocks differently and I might get a 3570k that can't get much past 4.5GHz. It really is a gamble when you buy them. I did get lucky with my 920 being stable at 4.6GHz since it has a C0/C1 stepping. I don't remember exactly what voltage I used back then, but I didn't use it for long and ended up going down to 4.4Ghz just to feel safer and to have better temps.

Again, 5.0Ghz is like my dream goal, but I would be happy with a nice 4.6Ghz+.

Basically I am going to get a motherboard with nice VRM/Mosfets/Caps, one of the higher rated water blocks for my CPU, and throw water on them (figuratively) while hoping for the best.
I am not completely opposed to delidding, but I wouldn't do it unless I had cash on hand to order another chip if I screw up.

On the subject of motherboards, wow that's a lot of choices! I really don't know which would be best for what I am trying to achieve, but I will state some of the reasons why I ended up thinking about using the Maximus V Formula.

First, and I know this sounds cheap, but it has an included VRM waterblock. I didn't use a VRM waterblock in my last loop and I can't help but wonder if it could have gotten me further. I know I could always buy a nice after market set, but that would add another $50-$100 to my build (probably). I think this factors in nicely to the motherboards price. I haven't found any reviews except by Asus which shows something like 18 degrees drop during over clocking. However, this could very well be a marketing thing.

SUPREMEFX IV. This board comes equipped with its own on board "higher" quality audio card. From what I've read it performs really close to dedicated sound cards, but it saves me space in slots if I want to add another video card and water block. I considered this as well when factoring in the price of the board.

Asus BIOS/UEFI. From reviews and friends all I keep hearing is that they are (probably) the best to use when trying to overclock, especially with the ROG connect.

That's not a lot, but I am just trying to show how I factored in the price tag lol. I am definitely not dead set on getting this board. I just want to find something equal in overall value. If everything I listed is crap then so be it thumb.gif

I know overclocking is going to increase my power consumption, do you guys think a TX850 regular or modular would handle everything my build could throw at it overclocked? I was thinking 900w and up was a bit overkill, but what's overkill in the pursuit of performance.

Hopefully my wall of text reply isn't too long and I didn't miss anything.

Thanks.
Edited by str8maniac - 1/28/13 at 5:14pm
post #35 of 61

The Samsung 840 will be fine, but try going for the 250GB version. Your getting a much better value there than with the 120GB.

 

If you feel like you need all those features, then go for it. The TX850 is way more than enough for all your overclocked components. Even a 500w will handle your system no problem.

    
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post #36 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by str8maniac View Post


First, and I know this sounds cheap, but it has an included VRM waterblock. I didn't use a VRM waterblock in my last loop and I can't help but wonder if it could have gotten me further. I know I could always buy a nice after market set, but that would add another $50-$100 to my build (probably). I think this factors in nicely to the motherboards price. I haven't found any reviews except by Asus which shows something like 18 degrees drop during over clocking. However, this could very well be a marketing thing.

SUPREMEFX IV. This board comes equipped with its own on board "higher" quality audio card. From what I've read it performs really close to dedicated sound cards, but it saves me space in slots if I want to add another video card and water block. I considered this as well when factoring in the price of the board.

Asus BIOS/UEFI. From reviews and friends all I keep hearing is that they are (probably) the best to use when trying to overclock, especially with the ROG connect.

That's not a lot, but I am just trying to show how I factored in the price tag lol. I am definitely not dead set on getting this board. I just want to find something equal in overall value. If everything I listed is crap then so be it thumb.gif

I know overclocking is going to increase my power consumption, do you guys think a TX850 regular or modular would handle everything my build could throw at it overclocked? I was thinking 900w and up was a bit overkill, but what's overkill in the pursuit of performance.

Hopefully my wall of text reply isn't too long and I didn't miss anything.

Thanks.

Yes, the soundcard on the ASUS is most likely in its own class when compared to the Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H. However, the ASUS board is overpriced for what it is. The waterblock on the VRM's is just a marketing gimmick.

Gigabyte has much better value. The Z77X-UD3H doesn't feature heatsinks because it does not need them, and you certainly wouldn't be held back by that board. smile.gif

UD3H might not have all the bells and whistles found on the ROG board, but it has some simple yet effective OC tools if you need those.

Check out Sin's review on it, its quite extensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

VRM on the UD3H is very capable; each of its phases has the same capability as 2 phases on most other motherboards. We are talking about up to 60A per phase under LN2 conditions, and an easy 30-40A during normal use per phase here.

800W PSU is overkill for 1 GPU setup, i'd look for something like 500-600W.
Edited by Fulvin - 1/28/13 at 10:34pm
post #37 of 61
I was going to point out that the Maximus V is a bit excessive, but then I realized you had a Watercooling setup.

If you're going to have issues fitting your rad in the NZXT case you could always postpone that purchase and put all or a portion of that money into a bigger SSD, or a better video card.
But really the 7950 is pretty good clock for clock and the only way to get more VRam (if it's an issue for you) is to get one of the high end 4GB nividia cards or a 6GB Saphire 7970.

I have to agree with a couple of people and suggest going with the 250GB (ish) SSD. They're on sale alot of the time for 150-180. And going between brands you'll gain a second or 2 on startup. Either way it makes turining on a mechanical drive PC feel like continental drift.
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post #38 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by str8maniac View Post

On the subject of motherboards, wow that's a lot of choices! I really don't know which would be best for what I am trying to achieve, but I will state some of the reasons why I ended up thinking about using the Maximus V Formula.

First, and I know this sounds cheap, but it has an included VRM waterblock. I didn't use a VRM waterblock in my last loop and I can't help but wonder if it could have gotten me further. I know I could always buy a nice after market set, but that would add another $50-$100 to my build (probably). I think this factors in nicely to the motherboards price. I haven't found any reviews except by Asus which shows something like 18 degrees drop during over clocking. However, this could very well be a marketing thing.

 

You could spend $100 less on the motherboard, and then put that towards nice aftermarket blocks.  Even the P8Z77-V Pro is good enough for water-cooled overclocking.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8maniac View Post

I know overclocking is going to increase my power consumption, do you guys think a TX850 regular or modular would handle everything my build could throw at it overclocked? I was thinking 900w and up was a bit overkill, but what's overkill in the pursuit of performance.

 

Even a quality-made 450W power supply is enough.  If you were to go with two 7970s, then you'd want to get a quality-made 650W power supply, but that's mostly so that it's easier to find one that has 4 x 6+2-pin PCI-E cables.  ;)

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post #39 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Even a quality-made 450W power supply is enough

If hes aiming for 5+Ghz wouldn't that be pushing it? I mean, what kind of a power draw should you expect from ivy on 1.5 volts 5GHz? (If hes lucky enough to get there that is) I'm curious to know too. i'd wager something like 200W?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

get a quality-made 650W power supply, but that's mostly so that it's easier to find one that has 4 x 6+2-pin PCI-E cables. wink.gif

My 500W SF Golden King Platinum has 4 x 6+2's. smile.gif
Edited by Fulvin - 1/29/13 at 11:46am
post #40 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulvin View Post


If hes aiming for 5+Ghz wouldn't that be pushing it? I mean, what kind of a power draw should you expect from ivy on 1.5 volts 5GHz? (If hes lucky enough to get there that is) I'm curious to know too. i'd wager something like 200W?

 

According to the review below, it could be up to about 156W:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i7_3770k_and_3750_review_with_z77,12.html

 

The idle is 84W for the entire system.  After overclocking to 5 GHz, it becomes 240W which is 156W more.

 

If this seems confusing, then look at the difference between idle and load at stock:  it's 160W, which is 76W more than idle.  The TDP is 77W.  The 3570K at full load at stock is 113W, and idle is 46W which is 67W more.  Overclocked to 5 GHz, the 3570K pulled 189W which is 143W more than the idle wattage.  So, it pulled 143W.

 

Going by that, I'll show the calculation:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_radeon_hd_7970_review,8.html

 

With one 7970 under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 355W from the wall outlet.  Their CPU was idling, so I'll add 150W for an overclocked 3570K.  So if the 3570k is overclocked and under full load at the same time as the 7970, then the PSU would be pulling 505W from the wall outlet.  If the PSU is pulling 505W from the wall outlet, then that means the system is pulling 430W from the PSU.  Of course, this 430W power draw would only happen if the 3570K and the 7970 are completely maxed out at the same time, and I think that's a bit rare.  Even so, the kind of 450W power supplies I'm talking about are able to deliver 450W continuously, 24/7.  So, even if the system were to pull 430W from it, then the PSU would still be absolutely fine.  Realistically, the gaming power draw would be closer to about 350W, maybe 375W for the most demanding games where both the video card and the CPU are used heavily simultaneously (as opposed to alternating).

 

For the 7950, it's even lower:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/his_radeon_hd_7950_review,8.html

 

With one 7950 under full load in their system, their PSU pulled 300W.  So, doing the same calculations as above, the final total comes out to be 382W.  That is, 300W + 150W x .85 for 85% efficiency equals 382W.  Again though, this is if the 7950 and the 3570k are maxed out simultaneously.  A more realistic power draw while gaming is about 275-300W - maybe 325-350W for some of the more demanding games.  So for this, even SeaSonic's 360W G Series would be enough because it's a high-end PSU designed to be able to easily deliver 360W continuously if it's ever needed.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulvin View Post

My 500W SF Golden King Platinum has 4 x 6+2's. smile.gif

 

Yeah, but how much did it cost?  That's the thing.


Edited by TwoCables - 1/29/13 at 12:09pm
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Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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Reply
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