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Cannot clone WIn 8 from HP laptop to SSD - Page 2

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganderhf View Post

Hi BinaryDemon

Yes there is the option but disabling it makes no difference.

Well leave it disabled during your testing, because Secure Boot will prevent you from booting with any hardware changes.
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post #12 of 22
Since your laptop uses Windows 8, and given your problem trying to clone the OS, it seems to me that the installation of Windows 8 was done in UEFI/Secure Boot mode, with a GPT formatted disk. The Windows 8 sticker you mentioned on your PC indicates that it has Secure Boot enabled by default.

Given that is the case, it is basically impossible to make a sector by sector copy of a GPT formatted disk that will boot, as you have seen.

That is caused by the nature of the UEFI Secure Boot itself. I don't completely know how this all works, but I have a basic understanding. The disk and partitions are assigned unique GUIDs, or Security Keys, that must always be unique to an installation. When Windows 8 is installed and run in a Secure Boot mode, the GUIDs must be created for the installation. But a clone will already have GUIDs in place, which breaks the Secure Boot rules, that are enforced by the UEFI/BIOS. For that and other reasons (a change in hardware, as mentioned earlier), a clone/sector by sector copy will not boot.

One way to potentially fix this is by deleting the GUIDs/security keys before you create the OS clone. That can only be done in the BIOS/UEFI of the PC, and only if the option to delete the GUIDs/security keys exists in the BIOS/UEFI.

In the same section of your BIOS/UEFI that has the Secure Boot option, is there anything about Security Keys, or GUIDs? If not, you are stuck. A desktop board I am using with a (two day old) Windows 8 installation, has the option to "load" or delete the Security Keys.

Frankly, I have never tried to use a cloned Windows 8 installation with or without the Security Keys, so that may not even work. UEFI Secure booting is a new feature that can only be done in Windows 8 (for Microsoft products), and is not understood very well at all by most PC enthusiasts, much less the common PC user.

For more information about this, try these links:

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2328-uefi-unified-extensible-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/17058-secure-boot-enable-disable-uefi.html

The second link shows how to use the System Image Recovery option, which you might be able to use.

In the Windows 8 Control Panel, open Recovery and then Advanced Recovery Tools, to create a recovery drive, which you may find helpful.

I can't believe that HP does not provide or allow you to have some kind of copy of Windows 8, which is part of what you purchased. If you had a Windows 8 iso installation file, and the activation key, you could install it on your SSD.
post #13 of 22
I don't think Cloning will work but here's my suggestion.

-Put the original HDD back in the laptop. Restore all BIOS settings to their previous state.
-Boot Windows 8, use keyfinder software to determine your Win8 product key. ( http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/windows-8-product-key.htm )
-On another computer, create a Win8 Installation DVD ( http://www.itworld.com/software/315272/download-windows-8-iso-microsoft )
-Reboot, change 'Secure Boot' to DISABLED in BIOS. Shutdown.
-Remove HDD, install SDD.
-Perform a clean install of Win8 onto the SSD.

It's certainly a lot of effort, with no guarantee it will work.
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post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

Hmm, can you pop in a windows 8 disk and maybe rebuilt the bcd or mbr or something? Like maybe a friend of yours has a copy he could lend you of win 8?

I don't have a Win 8 DVD Sean and neither do any of my friends/colleagues as no-one I know will touch Win 8 with a bargepole. Most are sticking with Win 7, some with Vista and one or two still have XP. None, and I mean NONE, will be upgrading to Win 8.
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

In the Windows 8 Control Panel, open Recovery and then Advanced Recovery Tools, to create a recovery drive, which you may find helpful.

I can't believe that HP does not provide or allow you to have some kind of copy of Windows 8, which is part of what you purchased. If you had a Windows 8 iso installation file, and the activation key, you could install it on your SSD.

Thanks for the detailed reply parsec.

What I’ve now tried is cleaning the SSD (using diskpart) and then initializing and formatting it. I also converted it to a GPT disk. I then disabled the Secure Boot on the laptop and deleted the security keys in the BIOS as well, which was an allowed option.

After that I rebooted the system and cloned the disk as before. When this was done I turned the laptop off, replaced the hard drive with the SSD and booted up to be faced again with the BSOD :-(

I haven’t changed any BIOS settings since disabling Secure Boot (which is still disabled) and there are no keys installed – there is an option to re-enable them but I’ve left them off.

I’ve also tried booting in Legacy Mode but get the same result.

Trying to create a recovery drive won’t work either – I get the message that “We can’t create a recovery drive on this PC” It then goes on to say that some of the required files are missing and that I should restart the PC using the Windows 8 installation disk or media! I don't have the Advanced Recovery Tool anywhere.
post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

I don't think Cloning will work but here's my suggestion.

-Put the original HDD back in the laptop. Restore all BIOS settings to their previous state.
-Boot Windows 8, use keyfinder software to determine your Win8 product key. ( http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/windows-8-product-key.htm )
-On another computer, create a Win8 Installation DVD ( http://www.itworld.com/software/315272/download-windows-8-iso-microsoft )
-Reboot, change 'Secure Boot' to DISABLED in BIOS. Shutdown.
-Remove HDD, install SDD.
-Perform a clean install of Win8 onto the SSD.

It's certainly a lot of effort, with no guarantee it will work.

Hi BinaryDemon

Ok. I now have the required keys but haven’t been able to download the Win8 iso. I downloaded the setup program, but whenever I run it, after entering the (generic) product key I get the message “We can’t connect at the moment. Check your Internet connection and try again.” I have tried on 3 different pcs in two different places using three different Internet connections (all of which have been fine) so I don’t know what’s going on - disabling the firewall’s made no difference either.

I really can't believe how complicated this has become :\

Having said that I do appreciate all the advice I'm getting here from you all smile.gif

I think the irony of this is that the laptop has the easiest access to the hard drive I've ever seen. Slide the battery catch and remove the battery, slide off the bottom cover, undo a single screw and unplug the hard drive cable and that's it! I can have the hard drive out in 20 seconds! If it hadn't been that easy I think I definitely would have given up by now. My Lenovo required the removal of 17 screws and the keyboard and prising off of the bottom. What a difference! wink.gif
Edited by ganderhf - 1/30/13 at 10:35am
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganderhf View Post

Ok. I now have the required keys but haven’t been able to download the Win8 iso. I downloaded the setup program, but whenever I run it, after entering the (generic) product key I get the message “We can’t connect at the moment. Check your Internet connection and try again.” I have tried on 3 different pcs in two different places using three different Internet connections (all of which have been fine) so I don’t know what’s going on - disabling the firewall’s made no difference either.

Hmm I can't explain that, maybe it is an issue on Microsoft's end and will resolve itself shortly. You could go searching the depths of the internet for a downloadable Win8 ISO, I just figured if there was a legitimate legal source it would be best to try that first.
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post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Yea, and I'm sure I'd find one. The problem then would be is it's safe to use or does it have all sorts of nasties on it?..... rolleyes.gif
post #19 of 22
I tried to download the Windows 8 iso that BinaryDemon suggested a few days ago, with the generic key, from a different source, but the same link to MS. It did exactly what you described, showing that "We can't connect..." message. IMO, that link won't work with the "generic key", and is setup that way on purpose by MS. The error message is BS, our Internet connections are fine, since I bought the $40 Win 8 upgrade download about 1/2 hour later and the ~3GB download worked just fine.

Can you see any BSOD code or data when that happens? I hate to go off on another tangent, but I wonder if the m4 is causing problems. If you just bought it, it likely has the new 040H firmware...

Hmm, never mind for now, I just found a thread in the Crucial forums about your exact issue. Someone claims that Easeus can work cloning a Win 8 installation, by using the "forensic copy" option. Not much info in the thread, but check it out:

http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/Cloning-Windows-8-on-HP-DM1/td-p/118190

See the fourth post on the first page.
post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

I tried to download the Windows 8 iso that BinaryDemon suggested a few days ago, with the generic key, from a different source, but the same link to MS. It did exactly what you described, showing that "We can't connect..." message. IMO, that link won't work with the "generic key", and is setup that way on purpose by MS. The error message is BS, our Internet connections are fine, since I bought the $40 Win 8 upgrade download about 1/2 hour later and the ~3GB download worked just fine.

Can you see any BSOD code or data when that happens? I hate to go off on another tangent, but I wonder if the m4 is causing problems. If you just bought it, it likely has the new 040H firmware...

No, no code at all - just the messages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

Hmm, never mind for now, I just found a thread in the Crucial forums about your exact issue. Someone claims that Easeus can work cloning a Win 8 installation, by using the "forensic copy" option. Not much info in the thread, but check it out:

http://forum.crucial.com/t5/Solid-State-Drives-SSD/Cloning-Windows-8-on-HP-DM1/td-p/118190

See the fourth post on the first page.

Thanks for that but I don't think that would work as being a " 'forensic copy' including blank sectors" would be too big - the source disk is 320GB and the SSD 128GB and I assume it'll copy all the blank areas too.
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