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[YT] Hawken PhysX Trailer - Page 11

post #101 of 111
That doesn't look impressive to me, besides, it doesn't look like much. It seems like they took one effect and applied it to everything they could.
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post #102 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiNet View Post

Maybe you don't see pattern: Havoc ftw, physx doesn't do anything and ATI card in sig.

Maybe you are simply seeing what you want to see?

Also, not everything everyone has or has had is going to be in their sig, and even when it is, this does not automatically imply bias. I bought most of my current ATI/AMD cards when I actually preferred NVIDIA, because NVIDIA hardware was unsuited to the OpenCL work I was doing at the time. I still prefer my GTX 480 to my 6950 for most things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiNet View Post

I guess I'm too stupid to understand how is it possible to alter game engine by using visual enhancer. Or how to cut a tree with physics software...

You have a quote that lists potential, but you aren't mentioning actual implementations.

No one is talking about what hardware PhysX could hypothetically be used for, as this is much different from what, in the overwhelming majority of cases, it actually is used for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I can pull marketing blurbs yourself, you're completely missing the point...As it is, PhysX isn't used for necessary and massive game altering stuff because it can only run on nVidia...What about AMD users? What about people who play games on their Intel IGP? PhysX doesn't work for those.
Hell, out of the stuff you listed only 2 change gameplay (Characters and new weapons) and I've never seen either used to any extent, that's why PhysX will fail...It'll never get fully used because to do that is to limit yourself to nVidia and nVidia alone, unless you want to hope nVidia plans to make the CPU PhysX better. (Which, to their credit, is far better than it was)

Havok is used in HL2 and Crysis uses its own engine, both games enable you to use physics objects to your advantage and would be substantially different games without...UT3's liquids would look different and there wouldn't be a small map pack. Yawn.

Havok and PhysX are both proprietary physics middleware. Neither Havok nor PhysX need special hardware to be used and both can be used for "real" physics that actually affects gameplay.

There are actually games that use PhysX for all in game physics, and that cannot operate without PhysX, again without necessarily needing NVIDIA hardware. BulletStorm is a good example on PC. Hell there are even one or two Xbox 360 games that use PhysX, like Castlevania: Lords of Shadow.

Hardware PhysX is where we run into issues. If effects are dramatic enough to require hardware PhysX and are also integral gameplay affecting components you won't be able to sell that game to anyone without a decent NVIDIA GPU, because it either won't work, or would play very differently.
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post #103 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

we already know how unoptimized physX is for the CPU. It's not that the GPU does it better it's that Nvidia purposely restricts their performance card to their GPUs.

Not really, it's just optimised and designed around the GPU, not CPU.





But yeah, I'm on record here as stating that I think it's abysmal that NVidia didn't open up more regarding PhysX (at the very least, stop restricting functionality when an AMD GPU is in the system), but then AMD were equally as stubborn and didn't want to licence it for "pennies per GPU". They said they wanted to use BulletTime (was it?) or soem other open Physics API... and never did anything instead. So, AMD owners can be pissed at AMD too.
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post #104 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I can pull marketing blurbs yourself, you're completely missing the point...As it is, PhysX isn't used for necessary and massive game altering stuff because it can only run on nVidia...What about AMD users? What about people who play games on their Intel IGP? PhysX doesn't work for those.
Hell, out of the stuff you listed only 2 change gameplay (Characters and new weapons) and I've never seen either used to any extent, that's why PhysX will fail...It'll never get fully used because to do that is to limit yourself to nVidia and nVidia alone, unless you want to hope nVidia plans to make the CPU PhysX better. (Which, to their credit, is far better than it was)

Havok is used in HL2 and Crysis uses its own engine, both games enable you to use physics objects to your advantage and would be substantially different games without...UT3's liquids would look different and there wouldn't be a small map pack. Yawn.

Havok and PhysX are both proprietary physics middleware. Neither Havok nor PhysX need special hardware to be used and both can be used for "real" physics that actually affects gameplay.

There are actually games that use PhysX for all in game physics, and that cannot operate without PhysX, again without necessarily needing NVIDIA hardware. BulletStorm is a good example on PC. Hell there are even one or two Xbox 360 games that use PhysX, like Castlevania: Lords of Shadow.

Hardware PhysX is where we run into issues. If effects are dramatic enough to require hardware PhysX and are also integral gameplay affecting components you won't be able to sell that game to anyone without a decent NVIDIA GPU, because it either won't work, or would play very differently.

I get that, but as it stands PhysX won't get much further than where it is now unless nVidia really improves the CPU performance.

I'm saying that PhysX is limited to aesthetic uses simply because no sane developer wants to limit their audience to just nVidia card owners...And ones that can actually run it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

we already know how unoptimized physX is for the CPU. It's not that the GPU does it better it's that Nvidia purposely restricts their performance card to their GPUs.

Not really, it's just optimised and designed around the GPU, not CPU.

It wasn't that long ago when PhysX's CPU port exclusively used x87 and SSE code, which (iirc) every CPU since at least 2001 has had and modern CPUs aren't able to run as fast, even ones such as the Core 2 Duo.
    
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post #105 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I get that, but as it stands PhysX won't get much further than where it is now unless nVidia really improves the CPU performance.

I'm saying that PhysX is limited to aesthetic uses simply because no sane developer wants to limit their audience to just nVidia card owners...And ones that can actually run it at that.
It wasn't that long ago when PhysX's CPU port exclusively used x87 and SSE code, which (iirc) every CPU since at least 2001 has had and modern CPUs aren't able to run as fast, even ones such as the Core 2 Duo.

No sane developer, limit? All of the last Physx enabled games have been multi platform. PhysX is a nice extra that some developers want to use and NVidia freely do it for them.

BatMan:AA and AC were essentially the same game for AMD owners, Physx just enhanced the immersion.
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post #106 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I get that, but as it stands PhysX won't get much further than where it is now unless nVidia really improves the CPU performance.

They have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I'm saying that PhysX is limited to aesthetic uses simply because no sane developer wants to limit their audience to just nVidia card owners...And ones that can actually run it at that.

PhysX is not limited to aesthetic uses, and where it's not used for aesthetics it's not at all limited to NVIDIA hardware.

For many uses it's little different from Havok or any other physics middleware.
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post #107 of 111
Off topic: I always get you two mixed up and now you're talking to each other it's fried my mind.
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post #108 of 111
That's odd.

I never confuse myself with anyone else.
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post #109 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

That's odd.

I never confuse myself with anyone else.

Might be just me but that's probably a good thing.
 
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post #110 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I get that, but as it stands PhysX won't get much further than where it is now unless nVidia really improves the CPU performance.

I'm saying that PhysX is limited to aesthetic uses simply because no sane developer wants to limit their audience to just nVidia card owners...And ones that can actually run it at that.
It wasn't that long ago when PhysX's CPU port exclusively used x87 and SSE code, which (iirc) every CPU since at least 2001 has had and modern CPUs aren't able to run as fast, even ones such as the Core 2 Duo.

No sane developer, limit? All of the last Physx enabled games have been multi platform. PhysX is a nice extra that some developers want to use and NVidia freely do it for them.

BatMan:AA and AC were essentially the same game for AMD owners, Physx just enhanced the immersion.

Did it alter gameplay? That's what I'm meaning, why would you practically force your market to run a fast nVidia graphics card or use a console?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I get that, but as it stands PhysX won't get much further than where it is now unless nVidia really improves the CPU performance.

They have.

Quite a bit since I last looked at it I've heard, but how well? Can it make a 3930K get decent CPU usage in a PhysX game?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I'm saying that PhysX is limited to aesthetic uses simply because no sane developer wants to limit their audience to just nVidia card owners...And ones that can actually run it at that.

PhysX is not limited to aesthetic uses, and where it's not used for aesthetics it's not at all limited to NVIDIA hardware.

For many uses it's little different from Havok or any other physics middleware.

For the most part, the gameplay differences are limited to small things that can easily be done via CPU PhysX, my point is GPU PhysX (What most people are talking about when they refer to PhysX, I'm well aware it can be used like Havok) isn't going to take off by being limited to nVidia GPUs.
    
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