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post #61 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nenkitsune View Post

They can simulate the human brain but without external stimuli won't the "brain" just sit in a sort of coma state or something like that. I remember reading about experiments they did with monkey heads. they kept a brain alive for a short time but because the brain had no external stimuli at all, it caused it to sort of go into a deep sleep state with minimal brain activity.

I wonder about this, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

This is a good point. They wouldn't just be able to simulate the brain and stop there, they would also need to simulate the stimuli the brain needs to function. If all they did was simulate the brain without all the senses in play and reading the "environment" around it then the simulation would quickly self destruct I would think.

The simulated brain would need a simulated environment to engage with.

Or a real environment, if they could manage a realistic degree of sensory input. I think they will eventually, but I don't think it's anyone's focus right now.
Edited by flamingoyster - 1/31/13 at 11:24pm
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post #62 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

Believe what you want, be thankful that we have the freedom where we can believe in what we want to.

Yes we can believe in what we want, but that doesn't make our beliefs relevant as you prove with an analogue in your next statement
Quote:
You believe in free will not being reality, I can also believe in color not existing as well, currently there is no evidence to disprove both color and free will. We don't even know how the universe was created (still going off of theory's that will more than likely be proven wrong in the future) and we don't even know much about what lays at the bottom of the ocean let alone our own galaxy.

I can buy that someone has disbelief in society's concept of colors. I do not however trust anyone who says that they don't think that electro magnetic radiation with a wawe length between 380nm to 740nm exists.
There is evidence against the scope of free will, practically all sociological papers do in some way relate to the lack of free will, free will is a moral concept and a religious one. They might not disprove it altogheter but as you say, we don't know enough about lots of stuff. to put it simply.
Quote:
I'm not buying your arguments against free will and without free will that means that we live in a finite reality which I find very hard to believe in as that would imply that a creator God entity exists.

We live in a finite reality but that has nothing to do with free will but the constraints of the natural order. Nor does it imply that a god exist, if anything it would be other way around since free will as I stated before requires a part of your mind to be detached from the world or what is known to mysticist as a: "Divine spark"
Quote:
I'm not going to respond to any of your other quotes as they are based on opinion and not fact and you saying that our mind does not create the universe shows that you haven't looked too deeply into this subject as most physicists would disagree with you and agree that free will is a fact of life (along with colors and taste) and that our minds do in fact create the universe.

Again, no reputable phycisists since the days of enlightenment has believed that the univese depends on our minds. Pseudoscientists yes but no one else. Saying Google it is not a valid reply nor a valid source.
Quote:
Too many grammar errors for my taste as well I'll leave this thread alone and wish you all the best.

Has nothing to do with anything and besides isn't it "Grammatical Errors"

For anyone just looks at this:
My blief is that the only way to achieve free will is to create a being whose realm of thoughts isn't constricted by our own physical interpretation of the universe as long as it's reasoning is done in such a way that it always can be disproven.
 
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post #63 of 93
It used to be "Can it run Crysis?" Now it is "Can it play Crysis?"
post #64 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Toilet View Post

It used to be "Can it run Crysis?" Now it is "Can it play Crysis?"

Hrhr, can't wait till it is "can it make more crysis?"
 
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post #65 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Toilet View Post

It used to be "Can it run Crysis?" Now it is "Can it play Crysis?"

biggrin.gif

Haha. I can see it having a huge advantage somehow especially if they give it hands.
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post #66 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huzzbutt View Post

Yes we can believe in what we want, but that doesn't make our beliefs relevant as you prove with an analogue in your next statement
I can buy that someone has disbelief in society's concept of colors. I do not however trust anyone who says that they don't think that electro magnetic radiation with a wawe length between 380nm to 740nm exists.
There is evidence against the scope of free will, practically all sociological papers do in some way relate to the lack of free will, free will is a moral concept and a religious one. They might not disprove it altogheter but as you say, we don't know enough about lots of stuff. to put it simply.
We live in a finite reality but that has nothing to do with free will but the constraints of the natural order. Nor does it imply that a god exist, if anything it would be other way around since free will as I stated before requires a part of your mind to be detached from the world or what is known to mysticist as a: "Divine spark"
Again, no reputable phycisists since the days of enlightenment has believed that the univese depends on our minds. Pseudoscientists yes but no one else. Saying Google it is not a valid reply nor a valid source.
Has nothing to do with anything and besides isn't it "Grammatical Errors"

For anyone just looks at this:
My blief is that the only way to achieve free will is to create a being whose realm of thoughts isn't constricted by our own physical interpretation of the universe as long as it's reasoning is done in such a way that it always can be disproven.

Actually there is no evidence that disproves free will. Show me the evidence? I'd bet any amount of money on it that it's just here say and long papers about why someone in particular thinks that free will does not exist.

The debate against it is just armchair philosophy honestly.

Also, if the reality or the universe in general was finite that would imply that a creator God exists as it means there was a beginning. An infinite universe would imply that there is nothing restraining us from free will.

If free will did not exist than there would be no point in prison systems or people that devote their lives to freeing themselves from their own mind which is very possible and goes against the argument that says that free will does not exist as how could someone go against their own mind without free will???

Again, how can someone take you seriously with all of your grammar and spelling mistakes?
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post #67 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

Actually there is no evidence that disproves free will. Show me the evidence? I'd bet any amount of money on it that it's just here say and long papers about why someone in particular thinks that free will does not exist.
Strawperson: You're arguing against something I never said
False Authority: "I'd bet any amount of money"

Never said anything about disproving it what i said was: "There is evidence against the scope of free will." And that evidence can be found in pretty much all sociology papers written in some way or another.
Keywords to look for: Habitus, Operation conditioning, Organizational structure, Social Psychology, Enviromental Psychology
Quote:
The debate against it is just armchair philosophy honestly.

Statement to be answered or a derogatory remark?
Quote:
Also, if the reality or the universe in general was finite that would imply that a creator God exists as it means there was a beginning. An infinite universe would imply that there is nothing restraining us from free will.
Faulty Causality: Finite universe = God

The universe isn't infinite and no it wouldn't
Quote:
If free will did not exist than there would be no point in prison systems or people that devote their lives to freeing themselves from their own mind which is very possible and goes against the argument that says that free will does not exist as how could someone go against their own mind without free will???
Faulty Analogy: All of above
Faulty Causality: Supressing urges = Free mind

Prison system = punishment, rehabilitation, protecting the society and to a certain extent revenge.
Using a constructed phenomena as evidence for a thesis is a sure way to not get the grade.
Suppressing biological urges is all about rewiring the release of hormones, nothing else.
Quote:
Again, how can someone take you seriously with all of your grammar and spelling mistakes?
Red Herring: Connecting coding with content
Ad Hominem: Attacking me rather than what i said

And again they have nothing to do with the point, it's an unrelated factor. Just as dumb as saying: "You look good, you must be stupid."
 
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post #68 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huzzbutt View Post

Strawperson: You're arguing against something I never said
False Authority: "I'd bet any amount of money"

Never said anything about disproving it what i said was: "There is evidence against the scope of free will." And that evidence can be found in pretty much all sociology papers written in some way or another.
Keywords to look for: Habitus, Operation conditioning, Organizational structure, Social Psychology, Enviromental Psychology
Statement to be answered or a derogatory remark?
Faulty Causality: Finite universe = God

The universe isn't infinite and no it wouldn't
Faulty Analogy: All of above
Faulty Causality: Supressing urges = Free mind

Prison system = punishment, rehabilitation, protecting the society and to a certain extent revenge.
Using a constructed phenomena as evidence for a thesis is a sure way to not get the grade.
Suppressing biological urges is all about rewiring the release of hormones, nothing else.
Red Herring: Connecting coding with content
Ad Hominem: Attacking me rather than what i said

And again they have nothing to do with the point, it's an unrelated factor. Just as dumb as saying: "You look good, you must be stupid."

1. If free will did not exist than why is it called the argument against free will and not the fact against free will. This goes to show that the arguement against it is just that......an arguement I'm sure if I had as much time as you I could bring up articles of people with all kinds of degrees picking apart these arguements against free will.

2. There are scientific theory's out there that say that the universe is infinite (In a constant flux of expanding/contracting look up the big crunch and big freeze theory both support the idea of an infinite universe) and if it is finite than that means it does in fact have a creator as something can't just come out of the blue.

3. Prison system wouldn't be moral as the murderers would have no choice in the crimes that they commit. Like I said without free will the world and everyone and life is pointless and hopeless. There is free will as the murderer has a choice to murder or not he can follow his mind or go against the stream of it. There is something beyond the mind that decides your decisions and in a sense but not in a sense that is you.

4. Suppressing biological urges being all about rewiring the release of hormones is laughable at best. If only life and making decisions was as simple as "rewiring hormones" haha.

5. Grammar plays a big role in showing how intelligent you really are.
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post #69 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

1. If free will did not exist than why is it called the argument against free will and not the fact against free will. This goes to show that the arguement against it is just that......an arguement I'm sure if I had as much time as you I could bring up articles of people with all kinds of degrees picking apart these arguements against free will.


Constructs are not a relevant basis for comparison, nor does a word or sentence prove the existance of what it describes. Unicorns?
Wether you want to call it fact or argument is up to you, the label is not as important as the message.
Again you attack me not the argument.
Quote:
2. There are scientific theory's out there that say that the universe is infinite (In a constant flux of expanding/contracting look up the big crunch and big freeze theory both support the idea of an infinite universe) and if it is finite than that means it does in fact have a creator as something can't just come out of the blue.

The big crunch theory is about infinite cycles, not infinite scale or infinite matter.
The big freeze is counter infinite as far as scale and mass goes. Mostly it tells you of an end where the atoms and energy of the universe has reached final enthropy, leaving gravity as the major force.
again not infinity, clearly defined end of everything.
True infinity requires infinite amounts of energy in order to keep the increase of enthropy forever.

Still, being finite does not equate god, I would like to see a properly written article by a reputable source on this subject, it would amuse me and pique my interest.
Quote:
3. Prison system wouldn't be moral as the murderers would have no choice in the crimes that they commit. Like I said without free will the world and everyone and life is pointless and hopeless. There is free will as the murderer has a choice to murder or not he can follow his mind or go against the stream of it. There is something beyond the mind that decides your decisions and in a sense but not in a sense that is you.


Morality is a pointless concept if free will doesn't exist. Morality depends on free will as it is a concept of forsaking.
Quote:
4. Suppressing biological urges being all about rewiring the release of hormones is laughable at best. If only life and making decisions was as simple as "rewiring hormones" haha.

And again, happiness and well every feeling there is is regulated by the release of hormones. If you read my last reply you would have remembered: Operation conditioning.
Quote:
5. Grammar plays a big role in showing how intelligent you really are.

Dyslexia?
A persons prowess in one subject tells you little about his skill in another.
Edited by Huzzbutt - 2/2/13 at 2:32pm
 
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post #70 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by W4nderer View Post

It can never be truly conscious. Through very complex and intricate algorithms that are backed by a massive amount of computational power, it may be possible to simulate consciousness, but at the end of that day, it will be just that. Algorithms, developed by humans.

So what. If it simulates consciousness then it is consciousness. At the end of the day we're also just algorithms implemented by nature and evolution instead of on a computer. The algorithm is known as DNA. The platform has changed but the game is still the same. Its like saying that playing games on an emulator is not actually playing the game, which makes no sense.
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