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[OCLab] The first results of Haswell processor in popular applications - Page 14

post #131 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216 View Post

Intel has zero incentive to improve big on their releases right now. They have no competition right now, so whats the point? All they are focusing on right now is GPU performance and power consumption, and for good reason.

8350 is 10% slower for 63% less money.
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post #132 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Im thinking along the lines of haswell vs steamroller.

Right now the 3770k is on average 10% better in multithreaded apps compared to the 8350. What happens if steamroller comes with the rumored 10 core beast? Lets say steamroller is 10% better ipc and then add 2 more cores on top of that. The 4770K is going to be in deep crap especially if its along the lines of 250-275 dollars. If that happens intel will have no choice but to give us 6 cores mainstream with broadwell.

At this point I take back all the crap I have ever said about amd.

The core count will stay the same but the IPC increase should be much higher.

But anyways, if AMD releases a really good chip then they will price it accordingly. We've already seen what happened to the 7970 and the original FX.
 
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post #133 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The core count will stay the same but the IPC increase should be much higher.

But anyways, if AMD releases a really good chip then they will price it accordingly. We've already seen what happened to the 7970 and the original FX.

Disappointing about the core count. They could easily put a hurting on amd with 10 or more cores. Arent there 16 core puledriver optys?
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post #134 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Disappointing about the core count. They could easily put a hurting on amd with 10 or more cores. Arent there 16 core puledriver optys?

Yes but as always those are just two normal dies under one IHS.
 
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post #135 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_nuke_em View Post

Damage control. I think AMD said the same thing about Bulldozer before mainstream results hit, and crashed/burned rolleyes.gif

True, but I can also remember when benchmarks on an ES of the original Athlon "leaked" back in 1999, and it looked like it wasn't very much faster than a K6-III. AMD said the benchmarks weren't representative of the real product, and no one believed them. Then the real thing showed up and absolutely beat the ever-living lights out of anything else on the market.

Take any leaked benchmarks with a grain of salt. Sometimes they're meaningful, like the ones that showed Bulldozer wasn't what it was cracked up to be. Sometimes they're just wrong.
     
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post #136 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Youre one member on this forum I would never question

I'm far from flawless, and even I admit that the picture of Haswell is not quite clear yet.

Still, I strongly suspect that those looking for a significant IPC jump (with current apps) from Haswell are going to be disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

and 5% over ivy is a huge flop.

As others have mentioned, Intel's primary goals aren't raw CPU performance. They already have extremely powerful cores, but they do need a better IGP and even better efficiency to be where they want to be with mobile parts.

Also, even for those of use more concerned with CPU performance, having only a modest IPC boost isn't the end of the world. We don't know how well Haswell will clock yet (they can OC), exactly how much the IMC has improved, or how power and heat density have changed. Who knows, we could potentially see average max OCs improve substantially over Ivy. A few tweaks to the process, lower power density, soldered IHS, and instead of everyone getting 4.5-4.6GHz, maybe we'll be looking at 5GHz. That's mostly speculation on my part, but all is not lost even if clock for clock performance gains are modest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

True, but I can also remember when benchmarks on an ES of the original Athlon "leaked" back in 1999, and it looked like it wasn't very much faster than a K6-III. AMD said the benchmarks weren't representative of the real product, and no one believed them. Then the real thing showed up and absolutely beat the ever-living lights out of anything else on the market.

Board/firmware had a more drastic impact in 1999, and the first AMD chipsets were utter garbage (I had a few AMD 751 boards, and holy crap were they buggy); I can't imagine what they would have been like with alpha firmware.

Also, clock for clock the K6-III was pretty impressive in integer performance. The Athlon dominated because of it's vastly stronger FPU, better FSB (and this was heavily dependent on board/firmware), and much higher clock speeds. Even in reviews done when the Athlon had matured often showed the K6-III doing decently in 'business' and other integer dominated tasks (http://www.anandtech.com/show/386/5), even if it was utterly crushed in gaming and FPU work.

Anyway, it's not hard to see how some tests could have shown the Athlon in a negative light relative to the K6-III, without necessarily having to be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

Take any leaked benchmarks with a grain of salt. Sometimes they're meaningful, like the ones that showed Bulldozer wasn't what it was cracked up to be. Sometimes they're just wrong.

Certainly good advice and good points.

There haven't been many Haswell leaks yet, but there will be more, and though they should certainly not be taken at face value, they will paint a rough picture that is unlikely to be wildly off the mark.
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post #137 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

8350 is 10% slower for 63% less money.

With a 315mm^2 die, Ivy Bridge's is 160mm^2 and sells for much higher price across the board, Intel is getting much more profit than AMD per chip and eventually AMD will bleed to death with low profit on the FX chips if they don't catchup in die shrink.

With FX-8350 and HD7970 carrying much larger die than their competitor and selling for much less than the competition's price, AMD is getting much less profit than their competitors, that certainly do not bold well for them long term. Which is not good, AMD need to thrive in the desktop market to push Intel into mainstream hexcore( I don't have much hope for AMD competing with Intel in the mobile space unless HSA is better than sliced bread and can overcome being 1 full node behind).
Edited by sherlock - 2/2/13 at 8:12am
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post #138 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

With a 315mm^2 die, Ivy Bridge's is 160mm^2 and sells for much higher price across the board, Intel is getting much more profit than AMD per chip and eventually AMD will bleed to death with low profit on the FX chips if they don't catchup in die shrink.

With FX-8350 and HD7970 carrying much larger die than their competitor and selling for much less than the competition's price, AMD is getting much less profit than their competitors, that certainly do not bold well for them long term. Which is not good, AMD need to thrive in the desktop market to push Intel into mainstream hexcore( I don't have much hope for AMD competing with Intel in the mobile space unless HSA is better than sliced bread and can overcome being 1 full node behind).

32nm vs 32nm and piledriver is only 99mm larger. I still think amd needs to be brass and give us a black edition 12 core with steamroller. I think it would totally decimate mainstream intel and send them reeling.
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post #139 of 164
So ~5% IPC improvement in Haswell and ( if all goes as planned) a ~30% IPC improvement in Steamroller would knock i5s out of the competition and give a serious blow to the i7s ( assuming that prices would stay the same, or atleast similar).Intel really needs to increase the core count on their mainstream CPUs.

P.S, A 10 core steamroller would be insane, but I don't see it happening.
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post #140 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

32nm vs 32nm and piledriver is only 99mm larger. I still think amd needs to be brass and give us a black edition 12 core with steamroller. I think it would totally decimate mainstream intel and send them reeling.

32nm vs 32nm die size difference is still substential (99mm^2), the point is that it takes much more silicon to produce a 8350 than an mainstream ivy/sandy, thus AMD is bleeding big time in term of production cost for a product they have to sell for a much lower price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill95 View Post

So ~5% IPC improvement in Haswell and ( if all goes as planned) a ~30% IPC improvement in Steamroller would knock i5s out of the competition and give a serious blow to the i7s ( assuming that prices would stay the same, or atleast similar).Intel really needs to increase the core count on their mainstream CPUs.

If Steamroller FX-8550 gets close to i7-4770K in overall performance, Intel could easily go more aggressive in price war given that even on 28nm Steamroller will have a much larger die than 4770K so Intel's edge in production cost still exist. If that scenario happens though I think Intel will finally give some serious thought about mainstream 6 core and rearranging mainstream i5/7 line to Quad HT/Hex HT while offering Octa on Enthusiast level.
Edited by sherlock - 2/2/13 at 10:53am
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [OCLab] The first results of Haswell processor in popular applications