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[OCLab] The first results of Haswell processor in popular applications - Page 15

post #141 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

32nm vs 32nm die size difference is still substential (99mm^2), the point is that it takes much more silicon to produce a 8350 than an mainstream ivy/sandy, thus AMD is bleeding big time in term of production cost for a product they have to sell for a much lower price.

If Steamroller FX-8550 gets close to i7-4770K in overall performance, Intel could easily go more aggressive in price war given that even on 28nm Steamroller will have a much larger die than 4770K so Intel's edge in production cost still exist. If that scenario happens though I think Intel will finally give some serious thought about mainstream 6 core and rearranging mainstream i5/7 line to Quad HT/Hex HT while offering Octa on Enthusiast level.

I think he meant to say 32nm vs. 22nm. Sandy bridge for example was 216mm^2.

However we have to remember that with IB and SB, you also have a IGP on the die. If AMD had to include one the die size of PD and BD would be much bigger.
 
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post #142 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I think he meant to say 32nm vs. 22nm. Sandy bridge for example was 216mm^2.

However we have to remember that with IB and SB, you also have a IGP on the die. If AMD had to include one the die size of PD and BD would be much bigger.

315mm^2(PD) vs 216 mm^2(Sandy) was where he got the 99mm^2, my point was simply that you can produce more Sandy/Ivy per Wafer than PD, thus Intel have lower production cost in term of raw material and wider margins on their product due to higher prices. Something that gives them a R&D budget AMD can't hope to match as well as much more price flexibility in case AMD becomes competitive.
Edited by sherlock - 2/2/13 at 11:02am
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post #143 of 164
Haswell will be a similar jump in perfromance as it was from Nehalem to Sandy Bridge. Expect it!

Architectural changes suggest that:

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post #144 of 164
i cast serious doubt that a architecture change results in a 5% increase ipc....
post #145 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutang61 View Post

i cast serious doubt that a architecture change results in a 5% increase ipc....
I don`t see that 5% happening either .
post #146 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I think he meant to say 32nm vs. 22nm. Sandy bridge for example was 216mm^2.

However we have to remember that with IB and SB, you also have a IGP on the die. If AMD had to include one the die size of PD and BD would be much bigger.

I totally forgot about the igp and was just trying to compare sb vs pd. Is there an idea on how large the igp is itself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudfire777 View Post

I don`t see that 5% happening either .

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutang61 View Post

i cast serious doubt that a architecture change results in a 5% increase ipc....

Both of you should read anandtechs preview
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkill95 View Post

So ~5% IPC improvement in Haswell and ( if all goes as planned) a ~30% IPC improvement in Steamroller would knock i5s out of the competition and give a serious blow to the i7s ( assuming that prices would stay the same, or atleast similar).Intel really needs to increase the core count on their mainstream CPUs.

P.S, A 10 core steamroller would be insane, but I don't see it happening.

10 or a 12 core would be insane. This imo is what amd needs to do to get back in the race. Have the normal 4, 6, 8 core chips then bust out the 12 and 16 core ones for high end battle with ivy bridge e. This ofcourse would require a revamp of the fx chipset but would bring back consumer confidence after they see amd has what it takes to compete again. I wonder how a 12 core piledriver at 4ghz would perform compared to a 3770k
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post #147 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

I totally forgot about the igp and was just trying to compare sb vs pd. Is there an idea on how large the igp is itself?

Got a Sandy(216mm^2) die shot for you, about the size of 1.5-2 Cores + more L3 cache to feed them on Sandy.



Trinity (246mm^2), no label but the GPU is the large figure on the right side, you can clearly see the two Pile driver modules to the left.



Ivy(160 mm^2), to my eyes about 2.5-3 Core wide and deep enough for 3 core & their cache

Edited by sherlock - 2/2/13 at 2:58pm
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post #148 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

10 or a 12 core would be insane. This imo is what amd needs to do to get back in the race. Have the normal 4, 6, 8 core chips then bust out the 12 and 16 core ones for high end battle with ivy bridge e. This ofcourse would require a revamp of the fx chipset but would bring back consumer confidence after they see amd has what it takes to compete again. I wonder how a 12 core piledriver at 4ghz would perform compared to a 3770k

I'd place bets on it being ~30% faster and costing 2.5-3x as much to produce. But you have to consider that it might not be possible for them to crank up a 12-core chip to 4GHz without some crazy heat and power consumption; aren't the 115W Opty 12-cores in the <3GHz range?

I don't think it would be hard for them to release more cores though. They already have dual-die MCM Opteron chips; they'd just have to get motherboard manufacturers to make enthusiast and gamer G34 motherboards and rerelease the chips with a higher clock and TDP. That TDP would probably be very unattractive and MCM means they'd be making little profit.

Regardless, I don't think we're gonna get moar coars from AMD until 2015 at the earliest. Until then we have some great things to anticipate though:

-HSA
-30% IPC improvement with Steamroller and another improvement with Excavator (old slides indicate 15% being their target but that was also their target for Steamroller and it changed)
-New platform/chipset/socket with Excavator, integrated PCI-E and all that
-Possibly DDR4 with Excavator
-PCI-E 3.0 on later FM2/FM2+/FM3

From Intel we can anticipate:

-incredibly small transistors (14nm in 2014, 10nm in 2016; whereas AMD will be on 28nm until late 2014 at the earliest and most likely will be on 20nm in 2016)
-incredibly low power consumption (not that they're not already crushing AMD on that front)
-great mobile CPU performance
-attempts to improve the IGP (dunno how this will work out)
-minor IPC improvements with each generation (5-10%)
-possibly their own attempt at HSA with Skylake
-integrated voltage regulation (no idea how this will play out)
-more cores (Ivy-E will have 10 cores; if history's taught us anything Haswell-E will also have 10 cores and Broadwell-E will move to 12 cores, then the next die shrink will add more cores again)

I look forward to the next few years being much more competitive than the last few, with the amazing chip that was Sandy and the flop that was the original Bulldozer.
Edited by Usario - 2/2/13 at 2:57pm
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post #149 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

I totally forgot about the igp and was just trying to compare sb vs pd. Is there an idea on how large the igp is itself?

Both of you should read anandtechs preview
Quote:
Anandtech: You can expect CPU performance to increase by around 5 - 15% at the same clock speed
post #150 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudfire777 View Post


My 3770K numbers in fritz chess were 10.2% lower then that haswell es. I also tested with 2200 memory so 10% seems reasonable
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