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[WCCF]NVIDIA GeForce Titan Is Not GTX 780 – Performance Surpasses GTX 690 - Page 24  

post #231 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post


And in the end none of that really matters, as you said GK104 has all the characteristics of a mid range chip, that's the entire point. And we now have a chip with high end specs coming.
The point of talking about "theoretical tech" is that it's interesting. Why do we always go through rumors, specs, leaks etc. before CPU/GPU releases? All hardware is unusable/theoretical at some point and we still like to talk about it.

About NV or AMD being ahead; I actually do hold the opinion that NV made a huge jump this gen tech wise due to improving their performance by a big margin and decreasing the die size from 550mm^2 to 294mm^2. That's a huge improvement.

Simply talking about it and using as proof of something are two separate things though. That's what bothers me about this discussion. Maybe it's not so much you as you seem to be in it just for the discussion but others are using it as proof to make some sort of point.
Edited by CaptainChaos - 1/31/13 at 10:38pm
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post #232 of 360
You stubborn turkeys need to listen to Alatar. He's right, you're wrong, GTX 680 is a mid-range CHIP.


Quote:
I'm not arguing that GK104 doesn't have the characteristics of a mid-range chip from NVIDIA. It does.

Thanks for admitting this, it take a lot of courage.




Quote:
But the chip itself is the high-end for its generation and people need to stop acting as if NVIDIA could have released GK100 without losing money, starting housefires, or encountering some other problems that became the reasons why it was never released.

No one's saying that Nvidia hid GK100 from us, they're just saying that the true high end was late to the party so they asked the next best thing to come over.

The stud had to cancel and they called the nerd over. The nerd did pretty well for himself but at the end of the day he's still a nerd, and a ballsy nerd too since he demands so much "respect".
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post #233 of 360
lol from debating GTX780 performance vs GTX690 into debating whether GK104 is high end chip or mid end chip. = U guys really need a break.rolleyes.gif

My prediction says if GK110 were to be out As Geforce Titan it will be

1. It will not be a full chip. Full chip are reserve for Tesla. knowing Nvidia have pretty bad yield for GK104, I think GK110 probably have worst yield, which mean we got crapload of GK110 that didnt it to Tesla due to defective compute unit. = Why not disable those unit and sell those broken GK110 as gaming card.
2. It will clock probably around 800-900Mhz. about 50-100Mhz slower than GK104.
3. Game Performance is likely to fall around extra 60% over GTX680 at best case scenario in real world.
4. I am thinking the "Surpasses GTX690 performance" are likely mean compute performance, not gaming performance.
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post #234 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post

You stubborn turkeys need to listen to Alatar. He's right, you're wrong, GTX 680 is a mid-range CHIP.
Thanks for admitting this, it take a lot of courage.
No one's saying that Nvidia hid GK100 from us, they're just saying that the true high end was late to the party so they asked the next best thing to come over.

The stud had to cancel and they called the nerd over. The nerd did pretty well for himself but at the end of the day he's still a nerd, and a ballsy nerd too since he demands so much "respect".

haha this, the whole thing is more about how GK104 compares to previous generation GPUs than it is about GK100 existing. It's all about the specs, always has been. Claiming that GK100 was just kept from consumers for no good reason is silly and that has never been the argument.

GK100 was never released, that's all we know of it. We have no idea about yields, power consumption or anything, assuming anything about it, including that it failed miserably is silly. There are loads of reasons for it wouldn't have been pushed forwards.

The mid range argument can be summarized like this:

GK104 is small, cheap to produce, lacks GPGPU features, is code named as mid range, has specs found in mid range NV GPUs. And because of these compared to previous GPU generations (on NV side) it's the successor to GF104 and GF114 when we're talking strictly about the chip, no price etc.

That's all the argument has ever been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

lol from debating GTX780 performance vs GTX690 into debating whether GK104 is high end chip or mid end chip. = U guys really need a break.rolleyes.gif

My prediction says if GK110 were to be out As Geforce Titan it will be

1. It will not be a full chip. Full chip are reserve for Tesla. knowing Nvidia have pretty bad yield for GK104, I think GK110 probably have worst yield, which mean we got crapload of GK110 that didnt it to Tesla due to defective compute unit. = Why not disable those unit and sell those broken GK110 as gaming card.
2. It will clock probably around 800-900Mhz. about 50-100Mhz slower than GK104.
3. Game Performance is likely to fall around extra 60% over GTX680 at best case scenario in real world.
4. I am thinking the "Surpasses GTX690 performance" are likely mean compute performance, not gaming performance.

A few points,

Even the highest end tesla, K20X has one of the 15 SMX clusters disabled.

Instead of chips with defective clusters the most reasonable option will be to use too leaky chips that can't make the TDP spec of teslas, in the geforce cards.
Edited by Alatar - 1/31/13 at 10:05pm
 
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post #235 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

About NV or AMD being ahead; I actually do hold the opinion that NV made a huge jump this gen tech wise due to improving their performance by a big margin and decreasing the die size from 550mm^2 to 294mm^2. That's a huge improvement.

Actually it looks like progress but actually it is not. Its simple. Nvidia GF114 based GTX 560 Ti matches AMD RV870 based Radeon HD 5870 in performance. Nvidia after the Fermi GF100 fiasco went for a mid range chip with higher clocks and a fully enabled chip to go against AMD's HD 7970. Nvidia did very well because AMD's performance with initial drivers was not so good. Nvidia had much better drivers at launch. So Nvidia could easily get away with pricing a 294 sq mm chip at USD 500. Also Nvidia got impressive perf/watt gains at the cost of lower compute performance. GK104 is poor at compute and loses to GF110 even though the latter is a last gen card.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2127/1/

If you want to use GK104 for GPGPU and compute its not so great. GK110 has addressed the compute market and will now come in its high end Geforce avatar. thumb.gif
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post #236 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Actually it looks like progress but actually it is not. Its simple. Nvidia GF114 based GTX 560 Ti matches AMD RV870 based Radeon HD 5870 in performance. Nvidia after the Fermi GF100 fiasco went for a mid range chip with higher clocks and a fully enabled chip to go against AMD's HD 7970. Nvidia did very well because AMD's performance with initial drivers was not so good. Nvidia had much better drivers at launch. So Nvidia could easily get away with pricing a 294 sq mm chip at USD 500. Also Nvidia got impressive perf/watt gains at the cost of lower compute performance. GK104 is poor at compute and loses to GF110 even though the latter is a last gen card.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2127/1/

If you want to use GK104 for GPGPU and compute its not so great. GK110 has addressed the compute market and will now come in its high end Geforce avatar. thumb.gif

GF114 is 360mm^2 instead of 294mm^2.

The high end AMD card of the time was the 6970, not the 5870.

Yes GPGPU features take die space, but not that much die space...
 
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post #237 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Again, I never said that it wasn't developed and I never said that it didn't exist at all. It wasn't fit for release, for reasons unbeknownst to us.

I'm not arguing that GK104 doesn't have the characteristics of a mid-range chip from NVIDIA. It does. But the chip itself is the high-end for its generation and people need to stop acting as if NVIDIA could have released GK100 without losing money, starting housefires, or encountering some other problems that became the reasons why it was never released.
Who is this directed towards? I haven't seen anyone make that claim here. For whatever reason GK100 wasn't released, it's safe to assume it wouldn't have been in Nvidia's best interests to do so.

I think Altar stated it best when he said GK104 is "high end" from a consumer perspective, but "mid-range" from Nvidia's design standpoint. After all, Nvidia just posted record setting profits at the end of 2012 from selling a cheap X04 die at $500 a piece.

Based on Fermi, I think the comparison of GF104 to GF110 makes perfect sense, and is probably a fair ballpark estimation for the types of gains Titan will have.
post #238 of 360
So many people right on the Internet. Just give me the card and take my money.
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post #239 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

GF114 is 360mm^2 instead of 294mm^2.

The high end AMD card of the time was the 6970, not the 5870.

Yes GPGPU features take die space, but not that much die space...

what i meant to say is consider Nvidia released a fully enabled GF104 with higher clocks instead of a GF100. thats what they did this generation. they went the GTX 560 Ti route instead of GTX 480 route with Kepler. It worked very well. Nvidia learnt that these huge dies on an immature process can be a pain. so they changed their strategy based on their learning. thumb.gif

As an architecture even GF114 is better at compute than GK104. i am not comparing end products because they are on different processes. but on the same process a GF114 would beat a GK104 anyday at compute.
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post #240 of 360
My only claim here has been....

GK104 = Mid-Range
GK110 = High End

Not sure where comments such as these are coming from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

Simply talking about it and using as proof of something are two separate things though. That's what bothers me about this discussion. Maybe it's not so much you as you seem to be in it just for the discussion but others are using it as proof to make some sort of proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

And it's quite laughable when some try to act as if GK110 is part of the same generation as GK104.

Common sense tells us that GK110 is a REFRESH of GK100. Just like GF110 was a refresh of GF100, and GK114 is a refresh of GK104. Need I go on?

Who has claimed that GK110 is part of the same generation as GK104?
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