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[WCCF]NVIDIA GeForce Titan Is Not GTX 780 – Performance Surpasses GTX 690 - Page 25  

post #241 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

My only claim here has been....

GK104 = Mid-Range
GK110 = High End

Not sure where comments such as these are coming from?

Common sense tells us that GK110 is a REFRESH of GK100. Just like GF110 was a refresh of GF100, and GK114 is a refresh of GK104. Need I go on?

Who has claimed that GK110 is part of the same generation as GK104?

who knows whether GK100 even taped out. Nvidia from past experience saw common sense in avoiding large dies on a immature state of the art manufacturing process. GK110 launched in late Oct 2012 in Tesla variant. that means a late Jan 2012 tapeout. normally tapeout to volume production is 9 months. Nvidia GF104 released in late March 2012. initial volume wafers to retail product shipping is 3 - 4 months. The evidence is that GK110 taped out after GF104 was in volume production. Nvidia had enough learning from GK104 and utilized it towards a large die design like GK110.

Your COMMON SENSE is not backed by factual evidence of a GK100.
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post #242 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

who knows whether GK100 even taped out. Nvidia from past experience saw common sense in avoiding large dies on a immature state of the art manufacturing process. GK110 launched in late Oct 2012. in Tesla variant. that means a late Jan 2012 tapeout. normal tapeout to volume production is 9 months. The evidence is that GK110 taped out after GF104 was in volume production. Nvidia had enough learning from GK104 and utilized it towards a large die design like GK110.

Your COMMON SENSE is not backed by factual evidence of a GK100.

Was GF110 a refresh of GF100? Yes or No?

Was GF114 a refresh of GF104? Yes or No?

Is GK114 a refresh of GK104? Yes or No?

My apologies if I don't have concrete evidence of GK100, since there isn't much to go by. Common sense would tell us that NVIDIA fixed what ever issues they had with GK100 with their GK110 refresh. Maybe, just maybe, NVIDIA didn't want a Fermi 2.0 on their hands and therefore skipped GK100 after encountering issues with their BIG die on an immature process. But hey, I understand that this sounds very far fetched that people like yourself have a hard time believing it, since we know NVIDIA released Fermi starting with GF110 right? rolleyes.gif

Sometimes, common sense ain't so common.

Let's look into the rumors shall we, and see what's right about these rumors, and how GK100 would fit in with those.
Quote:
Recently, a Taiwanese dancing mole, hair died green and still a bit hung over from New Year parties, gave us the answer. He said that GK110 is basically reticle limited, about 23.5mm on a side. The math says that it is about 550mm^2, with the last two generations coming in at 529/550mm^2 (GF100/GF110 respectively) and 576mm^2 for GT200.

.....

One thing the mole said when he looked up with somewhat bleary eyes is that the chip definitely has a 384-bit memory bus. Other documents have the part burning close to 300W, and you can read two things in to this number. First is that this part is very likely to be an HPC oriented chip with the CU count, and attendant power-hungry interconnect, being notably higher than GK104. Second is that the rumours of GK100 being cancelled early in the game are likely true, they said problems revolved around interconnects and power issues.

Will GK110 solve these, and therefore Denver’s similar problems?
Will it pull ‘only’ 300W, or will we get another Fermi-esqe performance per watt waterfall? Will GK110 be skewed toward HPC like the early leaks suggested?
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/02/07/gk110-tapes-out-at-last/#.UQtrWb_hrQs
Edited by 2010rig - 1/31/13 at 11:32pm
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post #243 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Was GF110 a refresh of GF100? Yes or No?

Was GF114 a refresh of GF104? Yes or No?

Is GK114 a refresh of GK104? Yes or No?

My apologies if I don't have concrete evidence of GK100, since there isn't any. Common sense would tell us that NVIDIA fixed what ever issues they had with GK100 with their GK110 refresh. Maybe, just maybe, NVIDIA didn't want a Fermi 2.0 on their hands and therefore skipped GK100 after encountering issues with their BIG die on an immature process. But hey, I understand that this sounds very far fetched that people like yourself have a hard time believing it, since we know NVIDIA released Fermi starting with GF110 right? rolleyes.gif

Sometimes, common sense ain't so common.

I agree.

I disagree that GK100's failure to make it to market doesn't make GK104 the high-end flagship of the generation regardless of its specifications.

I speculate that GK100 was worse than GF100 though... even on the revised version we're seeing disabled cores. At least GF110 was fully enabled in the GTX 580.
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post #244 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Was GF110 a refresh of GF100? Yes or No?

Was GF114 a refresh of GF104? Yes or No?

Is GK114 a refresh of GK104? Yes or No?

My apologies if I don't have concrete evidence of GK100, since there isn't any. Common sense would tell us that NVIDIA fixed what ever issues they had with GK100 with their GK110 refresh. Maybe, just maybe, NVIDIA didn't want a Fermi 2.0 on their hands and therefore skipped GK100 after encountering issues with their BIG die on an immature process. But hey, I understand that this sounds very far fetched that people like yourself have a hard time believing it, since we know NVIDIA released Fermi starting with GF110 right? rolleyes.gif

Sometimes, common sense ain't so common.

Companies evolve their strategy based on their past exerience and learning. From past experience they knew it would be a nightmare to attempt GK100 on an immature 28nm process. Why waste valuable resources on tapeout of such a massive die when the 28nm process at TSMC itself is undergoing tweaks in search of yields and towards the goal of volume production ramp. You have not given any thought to the idea that Nvidia avoided taping out a GK100 on a raw process. Maybe the design was ready (or not) but Nvidia wanted to delay tapeout till the 28nm process was in better shape and their understanding of the 28nm process better. thumb.gif
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post #245 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

I agree.

I disagree that GK100's failure to make it to market doesn't make GK104 the high-end flagship of the generation regardless of its specifications.

The stud (GK100) couldn't make it to the party so he had to cancel. The nerd (GK104) was then called in as he was the next best thing. But at the end of the day he's still a nerd, no matter how well he "performs" that night wink.gif

Maybe before coming to the party the nerd upped his cores and overclocked himself took some Viagra to "boost" his performance to the max. He took so much of it that if he took any more pills he might have died, which is why the nerd's parents then "locked" his pills in their medicine cabinet for good.
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post #246 of 360
This thread or rather this discussion skyrocketed in a few hours I quoted myself from a few pages back here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

That al rather depends on what man considers to be performing as a high end card the 7970 performaces equal as a gtx680 but those cards should be pushed on their tdp due to a large die at decent clocks.
So that they can really be called high end as in pushing the limit for a die.

Gtx 480 > 529 mm^2
Gtx 580 > 520 mm^2
Gtx 680 > 294 mm^2

So the reason why we compare it to mid end die's is
Gtx 460 > 332 mm^2

They actually just took half the waffer they would normally and clocked it up and they could do this because it was performing just as well and used just as much clocked high, as Amd's counterparts.

ps we can quit the discussion now as there is no way one side is gonna agree or not let's get back to the Titan biggrin.gif

Can we now just get back on topic it doesn't matter if you believe the gk104 is a mid end chip or not it doesn't matter if you believe that the gk100 is made or not.
What does matter is that we discuss the Geforce Titan card thumb.gif
post #247 of 360
Seems to me like most people are arguing the same things.

GK110 is nVidia's high end.
GK104 is nVidia's high end.

Both are true. Just depends on how you word it... Both sides seem to get this, both sides seem to not care and just want to argue over technicalities and wording that best suits there position.
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post #248 of 360
lol that's pretty accurate actually,
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post #249 of 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

You should read Alatar's NVIDIA GK104 for Dummies guide.

An assumption wouldn't be backed by factual evidence, such as this.



Specs wise, everything about the 680 wreaks of a mid-range CHIP. Based on history Gx104 is NVIDIA's mid-range line up.

If there was no GK110 chip, then you may have a case.

So tell me, if GK104 is highend, what is GK110? And what is NVIDIA's current mid-range?

It's quite funny that those in denial are often 79x0 users, I wonder if there's some sort of correlation. thinking.gif
You won't give NVIDIA a cent anytime soon, after you've bought 2 680's from them? Makes sense.

Those are some awesome clocks btw!

Which goes back to my point, it's all anecdotal evidence that it's mid-range. nVidia has never made a comment stating such, it was just assumed.
The FACT is nV sold it as their top end chip regardless of what you want to call it.

Also I'd argue that it IS a high end chip based on the TDP on the smaller manufacturing process.
post #250 of 360
Interesting if true:

Next-Gen NVIDIA and AMD GPUs Delayed to Q4 2013

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Next-Gen-NVIDIA-and-AMD-GPUs-Delayed-to-Q4-2013-325786.shtml
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