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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 11

post #101 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by erunion View Post

I'm going to ignore the "might makes right" argument that governmental bodies have special moral insight.

We agree on the bold part. A game is a product, just like a movie is a product. A boxed game should be available for resale, just like a DVD is.
Steam is a service that gives me access to products, just like netflix does. The pay model is different between the two, but they are equally cloud services.

If Steam does implement reselling, I think it may be best for them to allow customers to deactivate their steam game and thus "free" their CD key, making it portable.

The problem with the EU ruling is, exactly as you mentioned, Valve is not the copyright holders. Transferability of game licenses (the actual product) is not up to them.

Well, that's just the thing that boggles my european mind ebcause the only people fighting this happen to live stateside... It's like you guys dislike having consumer rights, and without a government body giving you and protecting those rights you have no way of enforcing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuuut View Post

So by your logic if i sell something on ebay and you buy it from me, ebay should be paying for the shipping?

And that makes sense and relates to what I said, how? Do eBay sell you the original product? No. Do eBay sell any products? No. Are eBay a retailer in any way? No. Do the products and things you buy (from independent sellers, no less) only work with eBay? No. They are nothing like Steam.

"Shipping" on Steam would be "ping....ping" as the game is lifted from the database of one account and inserted into another. You could burn a Steam backup CD BEFORE you transfer the game and give that to the person (shipping it yourself through the post), or ship the install CD that comes with certain retail games that only activate and play on Steam (Deus Ex retail, for example). Though, I totally agree that Steams download and cloud services cost them money. So, maybe Steam could offer a charge to enable full Steam redownload services on that game?

But, the point is Steam do not have to take a cut of the sale price at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

aaand you've just ruined all of your previous points, if Steam and the publisher have no right to take a cut from your used game sale then they also have no right to dictate how much you sell your game for. I don't think you've fully thought this one through.

No, I really didn't and, yes, I've thought this through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Ebay takes a cut form selling with their service.
If Valve implements a way to sell games with a built in client your damn right they should get a percentage. You don't get a service for free you know.

No, they shouldn't.
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post #102 of 503
The only thing I would be in favor of is for retail copies of steam powered games to be resold. Even that would come with limits though.
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post #103 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Ebay takes a cut form selling with their service.
If Valve implements a way to sell games with a built in client your damn right they should get a percentage. You don't get a service for free you know.

This is the way I see it too. If you are going to be selling over Steam then you are using their service and they are more than welcome to take a cut.
post #104 of 503
Next thing you know it will be a crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison with up to a $1,000,000 fine for re-selling your game codes, roflmao.
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post #105 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post


No, I really didn't and, yes, I've thought this through.
No, they shouldn't.

Why should steam have no right to get a cut, yet have a right to tell you how much you can sell your game for? This makes no sense. If Steam is just selling you a copy of game that you can do whatever you want with, then they have no right at all to tell you how much to sell it for.
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post #106 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuuut View Post

But ASUS doesnt have any cost on your graphics card after youve bought it. Steam does have costs after its sold.

Anyways this is the way to go if you want to kill the PC as a gaming platform. Its already the least profitable platform as we can see with devs not releasing on pc or with late bad copy pasta ports and my guess would be that this will not help improve it.


Sorry, but if consoles are the most profitable platforms (which they are, because there are millions more console gamers than PC gamers) then how come their preowned markets aren't crippling them?

I just explained above how Steam could allow you to resell the game, without taking a forcible cut, and still ask for money to continue with their operating costs that follows the law and is fair. There is no way on hell Steam should automatically get a cut, just because.

They could easily wrap a £5 charge on re-enabling their infinite download service and not take an automatic cut. There's no way on hell they should be taking a cut automatically. The seller could either ship the retail box, or burn their own backup disc for the new owner to use. The game is still tied to their Steam, but they can't use the download service unless they pay a levy.

^ That is fair and follows the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

Why should steam have no right to get a cut, yet have a right to tell you how much you can sell your game for? This makes no sense. If Steam is just selling you a copy of game that you can do whatever you want with, then they have no right at all to tell you how much to sell it for.

Because the wording of the ruling is clear They have no rights to stop you from reselling, but there is no mention of a limit. It could be put into terms and conditions that you give up the right to sell it more than it costs and I would imagine the courts would help them upload that (since there's a good reason for Valve to have that limit) They can also limit the number of games you can have on your account (as they already do) so that you can't stock up and try to profit.
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post #107 of 503
I don't doubt that it's possible I doubt that it makes any sort of sense.

If we're talking about complete freedom here, that doesnt solve the issue. It has just as many flaws as the current business model does and will probably only end up hurting the PC market as a whole.
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post #108 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

I dont agree with the re-selling of digital games period, so no, I don't condone anyone getting a cut. That's just a reality that this is the only way it would work. If the publishers and the service are losing money than say goodbye to the games and services you enjoy.

and no you're not obligated to uphold their current business model but you are obligated to understand what a shift in the business model would mean in the end. Consumers would end up losing more than they gain.

and please tell me how what I'm suggesting is all about personal gain but what you're suggesting is not?

Well then. Why shouldn't used digital copies be resold. They are property just like anything else. If the can't be resold, then the shouldn't be sold in the first place. Consumers wont lose anything. Again you're looking at this from a confortability stand point but have no problem blowing people's rights out of the water. Lets get this straight. I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SELL MY USED STUFF, DIGIGITAL OR NOT. If the industry can't get around that then that is their problem not mine. There is no way anyone who wants a game "cheaper" is going to priority of the rights of someone else. So if your cheap new game prevents me from my right to resell the game...tough! Deal with it. TOO BAD. BOO HOO. CRY ME A RIVER. As it stands you sir are the one saying to my face that I have no right to resell my games. You are the one saying I have to deal with losing my right to resell games because it affords you some sort of benefit like cheap games or online service or something. You really think that games are cheap because of this? Dude the CEO and boards of execs are walking all the way to the bank with your money. At a clip of 1000/1 over their average employee. I'm sure these games are dirt cheap because this is the cheapest way to do it. The reason they dont allow used sales is because these same execs are scared to lose money! So in reality they have you in hand like a little pet. You cry, "NO NO used sales games would hurt the PC industry" You obvioulsy dont remember these people making big bank before this do you? You are a fool!
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post #109 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Sorry, but if consoles are the most profitable platforms (which they are, because there are millions more console gamers than PC gamers) then how come their preowned markets aren't crippling them?

Copying, and redistributing console games is a bit more labor intensive than PC games. And running those ripped/copied games often requires having CFW or JTAGG or whatever the term be for each console, which not many people are willing to do outside of pirates and hardcore enthusiasts/modders. Whereas with a computer, you simply download the redistributed copy and run the .exe as you would any program or game. Requires no extra work, no extra knowledge except for where to find them, no risking the possibility to "brick" your system, and is just overall easier and more accessible.
post #110 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

I don't doubt that it's possible I doubt that it makes any sort of sense.

If we're talking about complete freedom here, that doesnt solve the issue. It has just as many flaws as the current business model does and will probably only end up hurting the PC market as a whole.

Except that used games don't hurt the console industry, and they didn't hurt the PC industry before, either.
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