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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 14

post #131 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

PC gaming is more than big enough to survive without people siding with corporations and less consumer rights.

Valve isn't something that needs protection, it's a big company, a company that wishes to maximize profits. It's a good thing that European countries are knocking some sense into the whole gaming industry.

This is the equivalent of placing a small bandaid on a very large open wound. The digital sales model needs massive reformatting, this is not the way to do it. The government has not only a right to protect the people but to not leave a company exposed. This would leave Valve and digital distribution on a slippery slope with no real benefit to the consumer.

MadPistol thumb.gif
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post #132 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

PC gaming is more than big enough to survive without people siding with corporations and less consumer rights.

Valve isn't something that needs protection, it's a big company, a company that wishes to maximize profits. It's a good thing that European countries are knocking some sense into the whole gaming industry.

AMEN!

I believe that those who think that somehow they benefit from the current business model have been successfully brainwashed by these companies. Somehow Steam has it in their best interest with preventing used games sales. Somehow always online DRM and larger profit margins have made games more affordable. Somehow blocking used games on consoles is better for the consumer. Somehow all these software companies that make billions of dollars are reaching for the same business model that takes power away from the consumer...but it's ok...it's better for us that way.
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post #133 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

This is the equivalent of placing a small bandaid on a very large open wound. The digital sales model needs massive reformatting, this is not the way to do it. The government has not only a right to protect the people but to not leave a company exposed. This would leave Valve and digital distribution on a slippery slope with no real benefit to the consumer.

MadPistol thumb.gif

Please explain this slippery slope. And the government has no obligation to protect Steam except if their rights are violated...in this case, they are not.
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post #134 of 503
Mad Pistol explained it wonderfully
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post #135 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

So instead you rather have your rights violated, give these companies all the power, and you not own anything, so you can sit home and play games. Nice priorities! Just wait...with your mentality soon we will have online saving only and then these games you dont even own will only last as long as the servers. OH WAIT that already happened. Guess what that's your fault. You wanted to play games and you let them take advantage of you and this is what you got. Hope youre happy. I'm not. You earned this for me too

Do you think I like how they do business? You are sadly mistaken, I just don't live in a fantasy land where I believe used games wont hurt the market of PC gaming. I'm aware I don't own the games in my steam library, I'm aware that used games benefit the consumer and I'm aware my rights are being violated by not being able sell games. However you still fail to see that the PC market literally means nothing to publishers when used games are involved. You wanna talk about being taken advantage of, just look at all the promises devs and publishers put out to appease the PC market that never actually come. I don't agree with not having the right to own my games nor the ability to sell them but I'm not naive enough to think the used market wont alter how the PC market is treated.
post #136 of 503
Who knows how much Steam make? They don't release their figures. Odds are they're doing VERY well if they're branching into hardware. But that's doping VERY well whilst violating consumer rights.
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post #137 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

Ask yourself why PC games as a whole are cheaper and drop in price much much faster than console games? This is the way the market has played out. I'd much rather deal with not being able to sell a game than pay console prices for games. No used game discount is gonna amount to 75% off for the buyer the way we can snag games on sale currently.

Exactly. People are so ignorant, all they think about is "OMG GREED." But they don't actually take their time to think about the fact that, we in the end get way cheaper games than any other platform out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

I'll take a good Steam sale over paying double for a "used" copy any day smile.gif

Yup, 80% of my library is from steam sales, and buying games at 2-5$ Which honestly, 10 of them makes up 1 full price game. Yeah..I'll take the steam sales, and rather make sure those steam sales keep happening by giving money to Valve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunchboxDDS View Post

I agree with people arguing this will ultimately be poor for consumers. I stopped buying new releases a couple years ago aside from some momentary lapses in judgement (Black Ops 2, Diablo 3). Nobody is holding a gun to your head making you buy $60 games. I don't see Steam being able to operate like this. If game ownership gets tossed around and people keep downloading the game, how do you justify Steam serving up the bandwidth for that? I never entered into the realm of digital distribution with the expectation of being able to sell my purchases. Really you're just setting up a 3rd party market outside of Steam operating within Steam that annoys me just thinking about it. Exactly like ticket brokers, bucket of yuck. Bad for the industry.

Even if it is implemented, I will not use it. I would much rather support the developer whether or not I like the game. Enter at your own risk.

Agreed 100% People don't realize that steam provides you with cloud services, they have to pay for bandwidth, lots of it. Why would they give it to you for free? Just because you bought from them before? Well by those standards, you should go to McDonalds and get your self 20 burgers for free, because you have bought from them before. So glad other people here realize this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuuut View Post

There is a reason why we see crappy ports on the PC all the time.... PC is the least profitable platform for most studios and you guys want to make it even less profitable.... i wonder what would happen next rolleyes.gif

^^This.
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post #138 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

This is a very dangerous path for Germany to be walking. The ramifications of a decision to allow players to "resell" their games will mean dire consequences for consumers.

  • First, there will be court costs. That will dip into profits, so operating costs will go up. Guess who that's passed on to?
  • Second, everything in Steam's library is license-based (as is virtually anything in the software world), where the creator of the software owns it and Steam is selling you a license to use it. For anyone (including a governing body) to believe that they own something that is intellectual property that they didn't create is foolish. That reason, alone, gives Valve the right to counter sue any governing body that wishes to pursue this course of action.
  • Third, by achieving a victory here, it will cause piracy and abuses of the system to skyrocket. Piracy will become more rampant because the definition of physical goods and intellectual property will be skewed (intellectual property being sold as physical goods). Therefore, people will be able to get away with more illegal activities when it comes to software acquisition based on a "gray area" in the law. DRM will be powerless to stop this.
  • Fourth, developers will make less money. Less money means less projects, less projects means less creativity, and so on. It's a dangerous snow-ball effect.
  • Fifth, scamming using a resale system will become rampant.
  • Sixth, people will attempt to push that they can "sell" their Steam account, which means that a price will have to be assigned to a set of data. That presents a massive problem because no one will want to buy anything new when they can get the same "product" at a lower price.
  • Seventh, digital media does not degrade in performance on its own over time. Software may become outdated, but it is the same as the day it was released UNLESS the software company that owns the intellectual rights makes an update. Because of this, it is reasonable to believe that the value does not degrade either unless the software itself has become outdated. So what sort of price do you assign to intellectual property?
  • Eighth, the consumer is owed NOTHING for intellectual property that is not theirs. The license is worthless without intellectual rights, which is assigned to one person and one person only. It will be akin to selling a video card second hand and it not coming with a warranty... this means that the software will be sold AS IS with no additional updates being required. Again, that's a dangerous prospect.


I'm sure I will think of more, but you get the point. There are so many negatives to this that the positives are completely diminished. With any luck, more people will realize that selling something that is not "physical goods" is a bad idea, no matter how you spin it.

The whole thread can be summed up with this post. Excellent.
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post #139 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuuut View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Sorry, but if consoles are the most profitable platforms (which they are, because there are millions more console gamers than PC gamers) then how come their preowned markets aren't crippling them?

Because the console has 1000x times the users the PC has so it doesn't affect them that much. Plus the fact that console gamers arn't the critical bunch the PC community is.

Can't you see how crippled the PC is as a gaming platform? Crappy ports because its cheap or no game at all. That isn't because they make bucket loads of money from the PC gamers.
PC platform is not crippled in any means. It's still strong and it's going to remain strong for the most part but there is nothing wrong with being able to resell games. You can resell cars/products so why should digital items be any different? I don't like the notion that the game is permanently locked into account and I cannot resell the games.


Also, used games for consoles does hit developers because they don't see a penny from it. All the money goes to stores like gamestop which makes over a billion dollars each year from just used game sales. I don't mind it if they take a cut from me reselling the item.


As a PC gamer, I want to have the ability to resell the games I regret buying
post #140 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljason8eg View Post

All that stuff has a finite lifespan so that's not really a valid comparison.
Dude...most cars last longer then games. When was the last time you played anything that came out in 1996 let alone any productivity software? I bet their are more used cars(let alone other items) that are older than 1996 for sale on CL. So digital media has a finite lifespan too.
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