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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 25

post #241 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

It is one thing to have EU courts rule that it is OK to resell digital games, but its a entire different thing to force a company to implement a way in to do so..

So it's okay to ban mercury emissions into water, but it's not okay to force a company to implement a method of preventing mercury emissions into water?
post #242 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

So it's okay to ban mercury emissions into water, but it's not okay to force a company to implement a method of preventing mercury emissions into water?

Not sure this is a good analogy.

Setting standards is one thing, dictating precisely how those standards are met is entirely different.
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post #243 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Not sure this is a good analogy.

Setting standards is one thing, dictating precisely how those standards are met is entirely different.

HE's just trying to say that forcing them to adhere shouldn't be something unheard of.
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post #244 of 503
I have multiple computers, I hate that I can't let my daughter and my brother play other games in my library while I am playing something else. I don't want to create another account for them and purchase games multiple times.
post #245 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Not sure this is a good analogy.

Setting standards is one thing, dictating precisely how those standards are met is entirely different.

I know, but it was the best I could come up with on short notice. The point being companies have to comply with the law. The government isn't telling Valve how to let people resell the license, they are just telling them they do have to allow it (or at least, if the lawsuit is successful). Just like the government doesn't tell you how to limit emissions, just that your emissions have to be under a certain level. Doesn't the EU have a law that stores have to take returns? So if a store didn't accept returns because it was against their policy, they'd be sued, right?
Edited by Forceman - 2/1/13 at 9:36pm
post #246 of 503
I don't like what is becoming the norms of game sales. Steam and EA Origin to name a few large ones. The way they do business is awful for our rights as gamers. Can't resell your games so what you buy your stuck with. These games are often listed for the same price for the digital copy as it does for the hard one that could be resold and with less restrictions on use. What really gets me is that at any time they can ban your entire account, which removes all your games, for something as silly as not agreeing to their new terms of service. The amount of support Steam gets on OCN always leaves me baffled when another companies try to enforce less and we have entire threads bashing them for it.
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post #247 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

I have multiple computers, I hate that I can't let my daughter and my brother play other games in my library while I am playing something else. I don't want to create another account for them and purchase games multiple times.

For multiplayer games, you're correct, and it does suck. However, it's only one key, so even if you could log-in to the same account multiple times, it would still only recognize one key for the multiplayer game, and the others would be unable to play.

For single-player, all you have to do is log-in as off-line mode. My wife and I only have one copy of skyrim, so if I want to play it, all I have to do is log-in as her and go off-line.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 2/1/13 at 9:50pm
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post #248 of 503
I think if I were Steam, I'd just charge $10 to transfer a key and call it overhead costs. This would weed out all the tedious transferring of cheap games because people are trying to save 50 cents. The more I think about it, maybe MORE PC games would sell on release if people thought they could get a good return used? I'm 100% positive developers (and Valve) would rather sell 10 $60 copies than 50 $5 copies.
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post #249 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

For multiplayer games, you're correct, and it does suck. However, it's only one key, so even if you could log-in to the same account multiple times, it would still only recognize one key for the multiplayer game, and the others would be unable to play.

For single-player, all you have to do is log-in as off-line mode. My wife and I only have one copy of skyrim, so if I want to play it, all I have to do is log-in as her and go off-line.

you are just bypassing their system, legally you are not allowed to do that, even their TOS says that only you should use your account, something like that.
post #250 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Yet another person who doesn't understand the IE thing. You don't understand consumer rights, either.

The TOS means nothing. Law > TOS.

Also, are you serious or are you willfully neglecting the fact that Steam games also come in disc form and no other choice but to use it?

It's not a big problem to resell games AT ALL. It doesn't spoil developers and developers don't lose a penny (since it's publishers who make all the money, they pay developers no matter what).

I notice you have Donkey Kong in your avatar... a throwback from the days of yore when you could lend a friend your cartridge and he'd play "for free"... funny how that didn't ruin gaming, steal money from devs of any of the other litany of silly stuff that gets said.

And no a transfer fee is not fair at all. I already gave one option, which was that the game is lifted from steam account to another, and a fee is paid if the new owner wants to use the "redownload" service Steam offers, otherwise they must always restore using a backed up copy (using steam backup, burnt to a disc and provided to the new buyer by the seller). Valve don't deserve nor have any right to an automatic fee. It should be the users choice to keep using the Steam service for their game (patches and the ability to download forever - the new user should pay for that if they want it.)

No need ot put Steam on some high pedestal. Steam just needs to comply with the law and realise that you should be able to sell digital copies. It's absolutely pathetic that you can't.

How don't I get the IE thing? Its fair to force a big corporation not to add in a basic function into a OS they make? I didn't see them breathing down apples neck to get safari removed. Trying to tell me EU court isn't biased? Not saying US court is much better ether.

Sure Devs and Pubs don't got money but that doesn't mean someone doesn't. Look at gamestop, they pretty much live off resale. Why shouldn't valve get the same action gamestop gets within their own service? It's one thing if your trying to sell a digital game your own when all you have the the install files and key, I got my Arkham city like this free with my SSD. I have a Key and a Folder containing my install files. No Steam and if I wanted to resell I could. Valve shouldn't get a cut of that money at all. But no cost to transfer games between accounts within steam would be the worst mistake ever. What would keep people from passing a game they no longer play to someone else? Passing it to someone so they can play it and then pass it back to you is just as bad as piracy. As your mentioned my throwback avatar, don't forget about "Don't Copy that Floppy" advert. It was always wrong to let someone use your game even when we had cartridges. Piracy is Piracy, letting someone play a game others spent money making for free is just as wrong as anything else.

A small fee to transfer Only that games that are activated to your account, not the unredeemed games. I'm sorry but if a resale system is to be implemented why wouldn't Valve want to make money out of it? Why should they be forced to put up with the extra front-end costs, support costs, all the other costs. If they have to spend money they your damn right it should be taken out of the resale cost, why should users make all the resale money if valve is doing all the background work? And Again if you don't like steam don't use it, i'm sorry if I believe a company should get the money they rightfully have earned.

And just because EU made something a law doesn't mean it is a good Law at all. EU Law can be just as bad as the US patent system at times. And really why not start complaining about all resale for any app. Whats next? Is every App store going to get sued because you can't resell your apps? What makes games on steam any different then the apps you buy on the app store? Truly Resale does nothing more then hurt the Devs in the first place, they don't get a piece of the action. If people didn't have the option the buy a game used them more would buy games brand new. Selling a game 5-10 bucks under retail does nothing more then keep devs form getting the money they worked hard to get and allow a 3rd party to profit.

Resale can be just as dirty of a business as anything else. Am I not the only one who sees this...
I will totally agree that if done right steam users should be able to sell their games. But It would have to be done fully within steam, payment and all. A transfer fee to keep people from abusing the system and all list of approved games for resale. You shouldn't be allowed to sell any game that locks your key into a email account, like many online only games. Though PC Game resale is a pretty niche market and most could care less, especially when your buying the games from steam for near used price anyway.
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