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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 27

post #261 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

It's not in your possession, that's the difference.

The license should be transferable, like a physical object is. Indeed, they are de facto transferable, in many cases.

You aren't supposed to be able to transfer them, but often you can, and be cause you can do so in complete defiance of publisher intent, the publishers forfeit more control than they would otherwise have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

If I get a gym membership (at most gyms), I can't sell/give that membership to a friend, they have to buy their own.

One of the many reasons I'd never get a membership. The terms are idiotic.

Of course, there are people who do share gym memberships, and it's usually easy to do. Again, this is a case of restrictions harming those who put them in place, because they pass up an opportunity to have a say in how things are transfered/shared if they flatly forbid such things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Same concept.

Similar folly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Protip- in the longterm, if it's bad for the game industry, it's bad for gamers.

The industry is bad for the industry. Every single one of the industry's problems has been self-created and is self-perpetuating.

Having licenses without provisions to transfer them is bad for the industry. DRM is bad for the industry. Crappy games, and piecemealed DLCs are bad for the industry. If the industry was reasonable, they would be a lot better off.

Their attempts at control can only backfire because they have utterly no reliable way to enforce such control without striping their product of value.

They think as you do, and that's the source of most of their difficulties.
Edited by Blameless - 2/2/13 at 12:39am
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post #262 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post

fact is, according to subscriber agreements. u don't own any game on steam. they're simply indefinite subscriptions, like rent, that will end if steam dies or if valves decides it wants to close your account
so yea. this is why i buy all new games on DVDs
Quote:
Originally Posted by L D4WG View Post

Doesn't Valve have something in their EULA stating purchases are digital and non transferable, and when you make the purchase you agree to this?

you cant sign away your rights, and if you do such contract itself is invalid. i mean if you sign on eula that you will become someones slave, are you his slave? eulas are written all in way which is unconstitutional in many eu countries. its the same with all other corporations and their TOS.
for example banks reserve the right to change unilateraly TOS published on their webpage but if you drag them to court they simply end your contract and since most people have a mortgage it would mean them losing roof over head ... as they would have to pay entire mortgage in full.

PS: i got AC3 with my nvidia card for free on UPlay from ubisoft but i would have to purchase for 6eur additional service if i wanted to be able to download instalation files after 30 days, for 2 years after registering ...

best
revro
post #263 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

It's not in your possession, that's the difference. If I get a gym membership (at most gyms), I can't sell/give that membership to a friend, they have to buy their own. Same concept.

Yea, it is exactly like a gym membership. All I'm paying for is permission to use it. I never actually own the gym because if I did I could sell/give to a friend.
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post #264 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

It's not in your possession, that's the difference. If I get a gym membership (at most gyms), I can't sell/give that membership to a friend, they have to buy their own. Same concept.

However, even if Valve loses this because of a shortsighted judge/jury, all that will happen is games will be piecemealed into an excruciatingly base core game and significant amounts of Day 1 DLC that uses codes to unlock. Think Mass Effect Promethean DLC inverted. All this content split off the game will be considered additional content and it'll require another lawsuit to make that transferable.

Protip- in the longterm, if it's bad for the game industry, it's bad for gamers.

Not always true, quite a few gym I've been to allows the transfer or usage by family member.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyHeaven View Post

Yea, it is exactly like a gym membership. All I'm paying for is permission to use it. I never actually own the gym because if I did I could sell/give to a friend.

No, As steam is free, your example would be more of, you paying 1000+ to use the treadmill, 120+ for the dumbbell,a nd about 2 million to build the pool, but you don't own them.
post #265 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

They think as you do, and that's the source of most of their difficulties.
Maybe so. However, because they think like this, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Because piracy and used games impact profits, regardless of how much of an impact they are, investors are more willing to put money forward when those routes are made harder/impossible. If used games and/or piracy are made easier routes, investors will become timid about non-established franchises.

Like it or not, the reality is bad for industry means bad for gamers.
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post #266 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The license should be transferable, like a physical object is. Indeed, they are de facto transferable, in many cases.

You aren't supposed to be able to transfer them, but often you can, and be cause you can do so in complete defiance of publisher intent, the publishers forfeit more control than they would otherwise have to.
One of the many reasons I'd never get a membership. The terms are idiotic.

Of course, there are people who do share gym memberships, and it's usually easy to do. Again, this is a case of restrictions harming those who put them in place, because they pass up an opportunity to have a say in how things are transfered/shared if they flatly forbid such things.
Similar folly.
The industry is bad for the industry. Every single one of the industry's problems has been self-created and is self-perpetuating.

Having licenses without provisions to transfer them is bad for the industry. DRM is bad for the industry. Crappy games, and piecemealed DLCs are bad for the industry. If the industry was reasonable, they would be a lot better off.

Their attempts at control can only backfire because they have utterly no reliable way to enforce such control without striping their product of value.

They think as you do, and that's the source of most of their difficulties.

I hope that you don't mean reasonable as in "games should be cheaper, and we should be able to trade them freely"
The game industry is already stuck in a state where it's extremely hard for indie developers...


*feels so weird to be on this side of the debate...*
post #267 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Like it or not, the reality is bad for industry means bad for gamers.

Maybe you are right, in the short term.

In the long term I think that I, as a gamer, would be better off if the industry suffered another major collapse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedINC View Post

I hope that you don't mean reasonable as in "games should be cheaper, and we should be able to trade them freely"
The game industry is already stuck in a state where it's extremely hard for indie developers...


*feels so weird to be on this side of the debate...*

I mean reasonable as in less inconvenient to get legitimate access than illegitimate.

It's a sad state of affairs when private torrent/warez sites, or even public one's like Pirate Bay, offer more reliable service and provide a superior product/experience than a game's publisher.

Many games are already effectively free, and can already be traded freely. People are still willing to pay for them, but many more would be willing if paying customers weren't routinely shat upon by publishers.
Edited by Blameless - 2/2/13 at 1:30am
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post #268 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Maybe so. However, because they think like this, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Because piracy and used games impact profits, regardless of how much of an impact they are, investors are more willing to put money forward when those routes are made harder/impossible. If used games and/or piracy are made easier routes, investors will become timid about non-established franchises.

Like it or not, the reality is bad for industry means bad for gamers.
Innovation would more than make up for the lost revenue due to second hand games and piracy. The lack of innovation is worse for the industry and gamers than what the industry thinks is bad for the industry.

It isn't a self fulfilling prophecy. Gaming has bubbles and bursts. If the current developers of video games cause a burst, gaming will endure until the next bubble. Gamers may have to wait a few years until the next cycle, but it isn't like gaming will just disappear off the planet.

Investors are called venture capitalists for a reason. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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post #269 of 503
-
Edited by Rotsae - 4/1/14 at 11:55pm
post #270 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotsae View Post

When can I resell my music I bought on iTune?

dat logic
well, once pc games go this way (and they will, cause the eu high court finding leaves no other way), soon xD
great hint. its basicly court finding which opened the pandoras box. the german court cannot go against it, thats why valve will loose in germany and so in all of eu

so its as they say, adapt or die

best
revro
Edited by revro - 2/2/13 at 5:36am
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