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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 28

post #271 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

How don't I get the IE thing? Its fair to force a big corporation not to add in a basic function into a OS they make? I didn't see them breathing down apples neck to get safari removed. Trying to tell me EU court isn't biased? Not saying US court is much better ether.

See? You don't understand the issue.

Apple didn't abuse their position as market leader (since they're not market leader) to push their own software over others, hindered competitors illegitimately (denying features to competitors to give themselves the advantage) and also pocketed big time from ad revenue on the start page for IE.

The EU court is biased. Towards consumers and fairness. The American court is bias towards corporations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Sure Devs and Pubs don't got money but that doesn't mean someone doesn't. Look at gamestop, they pretty much live off resale. Why shouldn't valve get the same action gamestop gets within their own service? It's one thing if your trying to sell a digital game your own when all you have the the install files and key, I got my Arkham city like this free with my SSD. I have a Key and a Folder containing my install files. No Steam and if I wanted to resell I could. Valve shouldn't get a cut of that money at all. But no cost to transfer games between accounts within steam would be the worst mistake ever. What would keep people from passing a game they no longer play to someone else? Passing it to someone so they can play it and then pass it back to you is just as bad as piracy. As your mentioned my throwback avatar, don't forget about "Don't Copy that Floppy" advert. It was always wrong to let someone use your game even when we had cartridges. Piracy is Piracy, letting someone play a game others spent money making for free is just as wrong as anything else.

See, now you're onto something different. If Valve were to operate like Gamestop then 1. They'd be buying the used games off users themselves and reselling them back to others. That's how Gamestop operates. They don't take a fee, either, they just make money by selling higher than they bought (or trying to).

It costs nothing to transfer games to another account.

And no, you are totally wrong. Lending someone your game is NOT piracy, nor is it as bad as piracy. What the hell are you talking about? Quite the opposite, you're entitled to do what you want with that. When you lend your friend the copy you own, you can't play it. Only he can play it. There's a MASSIVE difference between piracy and lending your friend a game. And here's the major point of the Donkey Kong era you missed - It was built on preowned sales and lending your great and favourite games to your friends. IT is totally ridiculous to try and assert that that action is wrong and damaging to the industry... Because it's proven false, as the industry was built upon the backbone of that. Point in fact, I had no interest in Final Fantasy until I borrowed the FFVII from a friend. I then bought every single game released up until FFX-2. Had I never borrowed my friends game, I'd've never, ever have bought the others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

A small fee to transfer Only that games that are activated to your account, not the unredeemed games. I'm sorry but if a resale system is to be implemented why wouldn't Valve want to make money out of it? Why should they be forced to put up with the extra front-end costs, support costs, all the other costs. If they have to spend money they your damn right it should be taken out of the resale cost, why should users make all the resale money if valve is doing all the background work? And Again if you don't like steam don't use it, i'm sorry if I believe a company should get the money they rightfully have earned.

Because Valve have backed themselves into this corner and tried, almost single handedly, to set the precedent that you can't resell your games, and it looks as though that's going to fall short and thus they're going to have to pay the price.

But here's the thing, there are MANY things Valve can do.

1. Why do they have to provide support? At a bare minimum they have to make sure their transfer system works. They don't have to deal with scams or anything. If you buy a game from a yard sale, or whatever, and it's fake or doesn't work, whatever, then you can't complain to anyone but the seller.

2. They don't have to provide the download and cloud service for resold games. They could easily charge a fee to enable those services - that's how they could make money.

It costs them nothing to transfer a key from one account to another and by the wording of the law that's all they have to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

And just because EU made something a law doesn't mean it is a good Law at all. EU Law can be just as bad as the US patent system at times. And really why not start complaining about all resale for any app. Whats next? Is every App store going to get sued because you can't resell your apps? What makes games on steam any different then the apps you buy on the app store? Truly Resale does nothing more then hurt the Devs in the first place, they don't get a piece of the action. If people didn't have the option the buy a game used them more would buy games brand new. Selling a game 5-10 bucks under retail does nothing more then keep devs form getting the money they worked hard to get and allow a 3rd party to profit.

Any pro-consumer law is a good law. End of argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Resale can be just as dirty of a business as anything else. Am I not the only one who sees this...
I will totally agree that if done right steam users should be able to sell their games. But It would have to be done fully within steam, payment and all. A transfer fee to keep people from abusing the system and all list of approved games for resale. You shouldn't be allowed to sell any game that locks your key into a email account, like many online only games. Though PC Game resale is a pretty niche market and most could care less, especially when your buying the games from steam for near used price anyway.

No transfer fees. Only selling a game you paid money for. Steam don't need to offer support or download services (both of which could be bought for a fee).
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post #272 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Because Valve have backed themselves into this corner and tried, almost single handedly, to set the precedent that you can't resell your games, and it looks as though that's going to fall short and thus they're going to have to pay the price.

But here's the thing, there are MANY things Valve can do.

1. Why do they have to provide support? At a bare minimum they have to make sure their transfer system works. They don't have to deal with scams or anything. If you buy a game from a yard sale, or whatever, and it's fake or doesn't work, whatever, then you can't complain to anyone but the seller.

2. They don't have to provide the download and cloud service for resold games. They could easily charge a fee to enable those services - that's how they could make money.

They can just tack on 10% to your sale price (5% for valve and 5% for the publisher) i think that is a pretty fair solution :S and if valve uses steam wallet for second hand trading it provides a safe way for consumers and it basically locks you into spending money on their service.
Edited by ltpenguin - 2/2/13 at 7:33am
post #273 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

you are just bypassing their system, legally you are not allowed to do that, even their TOS says that only you should use your account, something like that.

They should take the feature out of Steam if they don't want users to be able to do that. That's the easy answer. Unfortunately, it's far more complex than that.

Valve understands this too. I'm not trying to be cute, but if they don't want people doing that with their steam accounts, they need to take the feature out of the system.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 2/2/13 at 7:34am
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post #274 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltpenguin View Post

They can just tack on 10% to your sale price (5% for valve and 5% for the publisher) i think that is a pretty fair solution :S

Why is it fair at all? Valve and the publishers don't deserve anything form the resale. At all.


Just like everything else, ever, the original creators don't get any resale money from a resold product and videogames, music, movies, whatever else is no different. ALL money goes to the original purchaser who is now selling their copy of a product.
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post #275 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Why is it fair at all? Valve and the publishers don't deserve anything form the resale. At all.


Just like everything else, ever, the original creators don't get any resale money from a resold product and videogames, music, movies, whatever else is no different. ALL money goes to the original purchaser who is now selling their copy of a product.

Fair probably wasn't the best word but i do think it is a compromise that could work; whether they deserve it or not we are currently stuck with the game; i see it as better than nothing.
post #276 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltpenguin View Post

Fair probably wasn't the best word but i do think it is a compromise that could work; whether they deserve it or not we are currently stuck with the game; i see it as better than nothing.

Well, I don't see how the law would allow for them to charge you for the privilege, especially not considering the complaint.
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post #277 of 503
Quote:
Steam users own the games they purchase and should be able to resell them when they want to, just like owners of traditional card or board games can


Well, I think a Mercedes Benz E63 4Matic should only cost as much as a Ford Taurus.

rolleyes.gif

Steam games aren't the same game as their full price brothers. As such, they should NOT have ALL the same "perks" (such as resalable).

My 2 cents
post #278 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Well, I think a Mercedes Benz E63 4Matic should only cost as much as a Ford Taurus.

rolleyes.gif

Steam games aren't the same game as their full price brothers. As such, they should NOT have ALL the same "perks" (such as resalable).

My 2 cents

then they shouldn't be full price
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post #279 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Well, I think a Mercedes Benz E63 4Matic should only cost as much as a Ford Taurus.

rolleyes.gif

Steam games aren't the same game as their full price brothers. As such, they should NOT have ALL the same "perks" (such as resalable).

My 2 cents

And on some markets they are more expensive than retail games. Skyrim, for example, as cheaper in store for a long, long time. And still tied to steam.

You should be abel to sell your games, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Valve have had a free ride for a while now. Now that's time to end.

EDIT:

Also, digital software is resellable in the EU. Steam are not immune to this yet.
Edited by Rubers - 2/2/13 at 7:55am
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post #280 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by sausageson View Post

then they shouldn't be full price

Most of the time, they aren't.
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