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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 29

post #281 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Most of the time, they aren't.

Depends on your market... but there's no reason they should be more expensive. EVERY single digital game should be cheaper than the boxed version. There's no packaging and no logistics... That doesn't mean you lose resale rights.
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post #282 of 503
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Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Depends on your market... but there's no reason they should be more expensive. EVERY single digital game should be cheaper than the boxed version. There's no packaging and no logistics... That doesn't mean you lose resale rights.

Agreed, but honestly, I'm tired to governments changing the rules in mid stream. If you don't want to not be able to resell your game, then don't buy the game from Steam, go buy it from a traditional reseller. That has ALWAYS been their rules, and everyone knew it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Maybe Steam should say ... fine, no more steam access to ANY games in Germany then. It would stink, but it would drive home their point about changing rules when the buyer knew full well what the rules were when they bought the game.

What next, Germany passes a law that says that all online games MUST be sold at 75% LESS than their boxed copies? Where does it end?
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 2/2/13 at 8:06am
post #283 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Agreed, but honestly, I'm tired to governments changing the rules in mid stream. If you don't want to not be able to resell your game, then don't buy the game from Steam, go buy it from a traditional reseller. That has ALWAYS been their rules, and everyone knew it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Maybe Steam should say ... fine, no more steam access to ANY games in Germany then. It would stink, but it would drive home their point about changing rules when the buyer knew full well what the rules were when they bought the game.

What next, Germany passes a law that says that all online games MUST be sold at 75% LESS than their boxed copies? Where does it end?

That's totally different and there is no way Steam will stop selling game sin Germany... or Europe. The government wouldn't dictate the price, but they can dictate consumer rights.

And why shouldn't the government be able to adapt to emerging technologies or issues? It's always been a bone of contention with some consumers that you can't resell digital games. It's just finally got to the stage where an official body doing something about it.

I totally disagree. There's no way it should ever be a case that once you've bought a digital game you can never give it away or sell it. That's wrong and wasteful. It's the sort of thing that corporations love.
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post #284 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Agreed, but honestly, I'm tired to governments changing the rules in mid stream. If you don't want to not be able to resell your game, then don't buy the game from Steam, go buy it from a traditional reseller. That has ALWAYS been their rules, and everyone knew it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Maybe Steam should say ... fine, no more steam access to ANY games in Germany then. It would stink, but it would drive home their point about changing rules when the buyer knew full well what the rules were when they bought the game.

What next, Germany passes a law that says that all online games MUST be sold at 75% LESS than their boxed copies? Where does it end?

But this is about more then just steam. A big chuck of retail games have to be activated online to be it on steam, uplay or orgin making retail copies no different then digital ones. Steam might be the one sued but this is about setting precedence for all digital copies not just steam.
    
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post #285 of 503
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Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

And why shouldn't the government be able to adapt to emerging technologies or issues?

Maybe because the implications have world wide impact. Here is an example.

Suppose another country, where say a US based company makes software, is hated by a foreign nation, let's say Iran for example. Let's say they pass a law that says "All online software is considered free because it costs nothing to distribute it". (Basically condoning piracy). Should everyone else in the world be able to download a program anywhere, or more to the point, be able to buy software from someone who buys it in Iran then "resells" it for free to anyone in the rest of the world? I mean all a government would have to do is pass a law like that, and bank roll a program with a couple billion and it would totally hurt US companies ... and using the same sort of logic, would be perfectly "legal".

Same if a company says you have "x" rights in one country, then does that right extend to another country? Even if it is sold from the owner in one country to the new owner in another country?

Who is to say where the actual transaction took place? Is it in the host country or is it in the purchasing country? As it stands now, many laws say where the software is being hosted ... which is how Americans can legally buy software that violates the DMCA. If it was the other way, then since it's illegal to pirate software under US law, is the rest of the world now subject to the US law?

Such is the issue with buying and selling things online.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 2/2/13 at 8:25am
post #286 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Maybe because the implications have world wide impact. Here is an example.

Suppose another country, where say a US based company makes software, is hated by a foreign nation, let's say Iran for example. Let's say they pass a law that says "All online software is considered free because it costs nothing to distribute it". (Basically condoning piracy). Should everyone else in the world be able to download a program anywhere, or more to the point, be able to buy software from someone who buys it in Iran then "resells" it for free to anyone in the rest of the world? I mean all a government would have to do is pass a law like that, and bank roll a program with a couple billion and it would totally hurt US companies ... and using the same sort of logic, would be perfectly "legal".

Same if a company says you have "x" rights in one country, then does that right extend to another country? Even if it is sold from the owner in one country to the new owner in another country?

Who is to say where the actual transaction took place? Is it in the host country or is it in the purchasing country? As it stands now, many laws say where the software is being hosted ... which is how Americans can legally buy software that violates the DMCA. If it was the other way, then since it's illegal to pirate software under US law, is the rest of the world now subject to the US law?

Such is the issue with buying and selling things online.

Not really. If the person resides in the EU, then they are subject to EU consumer rights. You're blowing the whole thing out of proportion. But put it this way, I would hope, if this passes, that it will also be something you Americans can enjoy too. You guys have very little consumer rights it's flat out scary (and shocking many of you condemn consumer rights all together... what is wrong with your people?).

Anyway, This is't the EU dictating price or saying software is now free. It's saying software you legally bought can be transferred to another user. That's it. It's nothing damaging.
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post #287 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Not really. If the person resides in the EU, then they are subject to EU consumer rights. You're blowing the whole thing out of proportion. But put it this way, I would hope, if this passes, that it will also be something you Americans can enjoy too. You guys have very little consumer rights it's flat out scary (and shocking many of you condemn consumer rights all together... what is wrong with your people?).

Anyway, This is't the EU dictating price or saying software is now free. It's saying software you legally bought can be transferred to another user. That's it. It's nothing damaging.

Yes, I blew it out of proportion to prove a point. I never said that the EU was doing that. I was simply show how one countries laws can be abused by the rest of the world.


But anyway, companies ARE starting to say "Fine then, we just won't sell in the EU then because of your regulations."

For example: [macworld] Apple confirms it will cease shipping Mac Pro in Europe on 1 March
post #288 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Agreed, but honestly, I'm tired to governments changing the rules in mid stream. If you don't want to not be able to resell your game, then don't buy the game from Steam, go buy it from a traditional reseller. That has ALWAYS been their rules, and everyone knew it. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Just because you don't need to buy it doesn't mean that the company making it can infringe on your consumer rights. (how many tims does this have to be said). And yes it's consumer rights after the ruling about it.
Quote:
Maybe Steam should say ... fine, no more steam access to ANY games in Germany then. It would stink, but it would drive home their point about changing rules when the buyer knew full well what the rules were when they bought the game.

What next, Germany passes a law that says that all online games MUST be sold at 75% LESS than their boxed copies? Where does it end?

The amount of money valve would lose is very minor compared to what they would lose if they ended their service in germany, let alone the whole EU. Germany especially is one of the biggest PC gaming markets around.

And governments dictating prices has nothing to do with them telling corporations that consumers must be able to resell their software licenses.
 
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post #289 of 503
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Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The amount of money valve would lose is very minor compared to what they would lose if they ended their service in germany,

Interesting you said that here, and yet in the Mac Book Pro story you linked to, most people are basically bashing the EU for stupid "consumer safety rules" and how Apple is basically blowing off the entire EU instead of putting in a $10 fan guard and comply with the EU rules.
Edited by 47 Knucklehead - 2/2/13 at 8:52am
post #290 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Interesting you said that here, and yet in the Mac Book Pro story you linked to, most people are basically bashing the EU for stupid "consumer safety rules" and how Apple is basically blowing off the entire EU instead of putting in a $10 fan guard and comply with the EU rules.

The difference is that for the small mac pro market it doesn't make sense for apple to release a new model since they're doing it in a few months anyways. Taking a very niche product (compared to apple's other offerings) away from the market for a short while isn't quite the same as withdrawing from one of your biggest markets.

And besides, I don't like trivial safety regulations either, consumer rights ones aren't trivial and stupid though.
 
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