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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 4

post #31 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huzzbutt View Post

If they win, personal CD keys will be a thing of the past. Any ruling will affect makers to

I doubt it, if anything Valve will just retreat from that area. I don't think the amount of money it would take valve to implement Resale into Stream wouldn't be worth it for them. When they could just leave, PC gaming may be big in Germany but most of the profit sill comes from UK and USA.

I would love a good resale system, but only games that are able to be resold should. Steam will eventually allow you to trade certain games like it already does for some, and sell. But in good time, as in a few years.

Germany gives out more money for games than the UK as much as I know. Note that Switzerland, Austria and Liechtenstein are also part of the german store. Steam would loose a huge part of their profit if they pulled out of Germany.


Edited by noobhell - 2/1/13 at 10:35am
post #32 of 503
A method in which Valve takes a cut of resales will most likely happen anyway. So if anything A ruling against Valve could just as well force Valve into a method where it makes even more money from its users.
Kinda why Sony Wanted to get rid of 3rd party's getting that money action from resale. Which may happen with the ps4... Gamestop I hoping to see you close your doors tongue.gif.

I still wouldn't expect anything like this being implemented for atleast 1-2years though.

Though People are better off buying a retail copy if they want to resell, as the one offering the services will be the one getting the most out of the deal.
Though who knows, if Resale works out great for Valve I bet you'll see apple the first one to pick it up. So they can take another cut of your money.
Edited by DzillaXx - 2/1/13 at 10:39am
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post #33 of 503
Do people have nothing better to do than selling games they already played? In this day and age, if you find the game disappointing...well who is to blame? There are more video game review sites than I can count on my hands, let along youtube gameplay videos.

I just don't understand some people.

First world problems.
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post #34 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

A method in which Valve takes a cut of resales will most likely happen anyway. So if anything A ruling against Valve could just as well force Valve into a method where it makes even more money from its users.
Kinda why Sony Wanted to get rid of 3rd party's getting that money action from resale. Which may happen with the ps4... Gamestop I hoping to see you close your doors tongue.gif.

I still wouldn't expect anything like this being implemented for atleast 1-2years though.

Though People are better off buying a retail copy if they want to resell, as the one offering the services will be the one getting the most out of the deal.
Though who knows, if Resale works out great for Valve I bet your see apple the first one to pick it up. So they can take another cut of your money.

True. But instead of getting $20 for selling a new copy, they would only get $2-5 for allowing a user to sell their copy that they no longer use.

A big part of DRM is not to combat piracy, but to prevent used game sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylon View Post

Do people have nothing better to do than selling games they already played? In this day and age, if you find the game disappointing...well who is to blame? There are more video game review sites than I can count on my hands, let along youtube gameplay videos.

I just don't understand some people.

First world problems.

I play a game. I enjoyed it, but there isn't much replay value, so it would just sit there uselessly. I can sell it to recoup some of the costs, and another person can get it for a lower price.
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post #35 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Welcome to economics where there usually isn't a "right" answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

I know this drum has been beaten a few times before, but we do not own the games; we buy a, currently non-transferable, license to play them.

I am in two minds about the re-selling of digital games.

On the one hand if we could sell, or transfer the license of, used games then it might increase sales; people may be more willing to spend their money if they thought they could re-coup some of it later. It would be nice from my point of view to be able to sell off the games I have completed and have no interest in playing again, like MW3, or the games I didn't like in the first place like the Dead Space series (sorry, not my type of game).

Against that is the possibility that the second hand market would reduce sales of "new" games. This would have the effect of driving up prices to compensate and reducing the number of crazy cheap promotions. Although you could re-coup some of this higher price by re-selling, it sets the entry level higher and increases the investement in games that you want to keep.

I really don't know which way to lean on this. Yes I would love to be able to re-sell some of my games, but on the other hand I do enjoy the fact that they are fairly cheap to start with and are very often reduced in things like the Steam sales.
Simple really. Make the resale version stripped of everything, but the game. If there is an online mode, disable it, and take out any special stuff you get in game or dlc
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post #36 of 503
The only problem I see with being able to "sell" used games is users allowing others to "borrow" the game. A physical copy isn't going to travel to friends worldwide, a digital copy easily could and there would be no stopping it, thus promoting piracy in a sense to those who decide to abuse it intentionally or not. There would need to be a system in place to prevent such a thing from happening, say... a timer on the games trade/sell-ability of a lengthy time of a month or 2 to limit how often the game / game license can be handed around. It may not stop it, but it would keep things moving slow.

Edit: Also, some Steam sales are so stupidly cheap that they're often cheaper than actual used box games. So, I don't really see a problem.
Edited by Shrak - 2/1/13 at 10:51am
post #37 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

A method in which Valve takes a cut of resales will most likely happen anyway. So if anything A ruling against Valve could just as well force Valve into a method where it makes even more money from its users.
Kinda why Sony Wanted to get rid of 3rd party's getting that money action from resale. Which may happen with the ps4... Gamestop I hoping to see you close your doors tongue.gif.

I still wouldn't expect anything like this being implemented for atleast 1-2years though.

Though People are better off buying a retail copy if they want to resell, as the one offering the services will be the one getting the most out of the deal.
Though who knows, if Resale works out great for Valve I bet you'll see apple the first one to pick it up. So they can take another cut of your money.

Not sure what you mean by Retail, you still have to register the License Key, which then makes it akin to a digital sale. You just get a fancy box.
Forcing people to use a platform to "resale" their copy would be great for digital sales like Steam.

For us buying a used Key for $5 or buying a Steam Sale copy for $5 I just don't see a difference so thumb.gif
It would however interfere with Trades or "Giving your copy to your friend to use".
In this case, having to pay every time to pass games around would suck.
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post #38 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

The only problem I see with being able to "sell" used games is users allowing others to "borrow" the game. A physical copy isn't going to travel to friends worldwide, a digital copy easily could and there would be no stopping it, thus promoting piracy in a sense to those who decide to abuse it intentionally or not. There would need to be a system in place to prevent such a thing from happening, say... a timer on the games trade/sell-ability of a lengthy time of a month or 2 to limit how often the game / game license can be handed around. It may not stop it, but it would keep things moving slow.

interesting point on the possible abuses that could stem from such a marketplace without some added limitation. thumb.gif


I thought valve was working on some used game marketplace within steam. Maybe that's still in the works.
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post #39 of 503
In response to the "you don't own the games, you only buy a license".

As I've said a few times in the past, you are indeed buying a license, but not for yourself.

The way Steam works means you're actually buying a license FOR Steam, its just that Steam allows you to access those licenses provided you agree to any and all t&c conditions past, present or future, no matter what they are.

If it were actually the case that gamers were actually owning ANYTHING they purchased, be it the game, the license or the right to access them a third partys terms and conditions would be moot.

However as it stands, the Steam system means you literally own nothing at all. It may not be so from some countries legal standpoint, but from a practical standpoint you own nothing.

If you have to agree to someone else's terms to access your stuff, and you have a very limited ability to actually do anything with that stuff due to that same someone else actually controlling all that happens with your stuff, then it was never your stuff.

Its their stuff. In real world speak/situations, it their stuff.

Its the equivalent of walking into a gaming shop and buying a game, but that game has to stay at your friends house and you need to access their house so you can play it.

You can't sell it because it needs to be in his house at all times.

You can't borrow it to your other friends. It needs to be in his house at all times.

If you ever have a falling out, he gets to keep your game. Because it needs to be in his house at all times. If you lose access to their house, you lose access to your own possessions?

Doesn't sound right does it? Was it really yours? Was that game you spent money on ever really yours?


If I didn't know any better I'd have thought everything from the license, right down to the right to access that license actually belonged to him, not you?
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post #40 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylon View Post

Do people have nothing better to do than selling games they already played? In this day and age, if you find the game disappointing...well who is to blame? There are more video game review sites than I can count on my hands, let along youtube gameplay videos.

I just don't understand some people.

First world problems.
This is a pretty closed minded opinion. If I don't like it, I should be willing to sell it. Doesn't matter what the reviews say. You never truely know until you actually play it. Even if I liked it, I still should have the ability to sell it whether its because I dont play it anymore and my buddy can't afford to purchase it new, or what ever. It doesn't matter. You don't understand some people because you fail to think like other people

"Some games I just don't see a resale being possible with. For example Company of Heroes Requires you to make a account and activate your keys to it. Now how will you resell a game when the CD-Key no longer functions? Can't Force Valve to give users new keys...Suing Valve will help no one, as it's the methods of DRM that makes resale a pain. Thats why we would be better off till valve or whomever can find a good way to resell the games that are capable of being sold." As far as this is concerned, Game developers and production companies created such things as DRM and CD-Keys etc to prevent resale. These things can be undone. The right and ethical thing is to protect the rights of people..i.e. you have the right to sell something you own. Then let the developers formulate pirating protection by not violating this principle. Once you violate the rights of consumers, the rights only become further abused. The idea of software lisencing is rediculous as well. It's all about corparate control of consumers and profit control. But people for some reason think that it's ok. Some people just stand and watch and pay $80 for a DRM game with only online saving that by legal license isnt theirs. So sueing Valve is a good thing. It's a pain now because nobody has done anything about it. But if this is successful and carries over to other countries and platforms, then it wont be a pain any more. Do you not see that?
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