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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 5

post #41 of 503
I know how it works, we dont technically own the game the way it is put in the terms of valve, but it would be nice if i could sell some games, too many of em and some regrets lol.
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post #42 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

In response to the "you don't own the games, you only buy a license".

As I've said a few times in the past, you are indeed buying a license, but not for yourself.

The way Steam works means you're actually buying a license FOR Steam, its just that Steam allows you to access those licenses provided you agree to any and all t&c conditions past, present or future, no matter what they are.

If it were actually the case that gamers were actually owning ANYTHING they purchased, be it the game, the license or the right to access them a third partys terms and conditions would be moot.

However as it stands, the Steam system means you literally own nothing at all. It may not be so from some countries legal standpoint, but from a practical standpoint you own nothing.

If you have to agree to someone else's terms to access your stuff, and you have a very limited ability to actually do anything with that stuff due to that same someone else actually controlling all that happens with your stuff, then it was never your stuff.

Its their stuff. In real world speak/situations, it their stuff.

Its the equivalent of walking into a gaming shop and buying a game, but that game has to stay at your friends house and you need to access their house so you can play it.

You can't sell it because it needs to be in his house at all times.

You can't borrow it to your other friends. It needs to be in his house at all times.

If you ever have a falling out, he gets to keep your game. Because it needs to be in his house at all times. If you lose access to their house, you lose access to your own possessions?

Doesn't sound right does it? Was it really yours? Was that game you spent money on ever really yours?


If I didn't know any better I'd have thought everything from the license, right down to the right to access that license actually belonged to him, not you?

National Law supercedes TOS
TOS is irrelevant if it can be proven that most consumers believe that they purchase the game, desnt even have to go that far, just look at the buttons when you finalize your purchase: "buy this for myself" or "whatever" This isn't controversial or even close to debateable. TOS is far less of a potent contract than clicking a button that says "buy this for myself", just by having it there they're telling you that you are purchasing the game. The repeated message is that you are buying games, not that you are purchasing licenses for steam. thus the repeated contract (all sales are contracts) is that you buy games.
If Mr Nevell is going to contest this he should have put : "License to play" as prefix to every title and changed the little button to: "purchase for license for steam"
Again TOS is less important when contradictory messages are displayed in greater numbers. the Whole TOS as a legal device thing is just silly since it doesn't require any personal identification
 
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post #43 of 503
As much as I'd like to Valve to lose, it's really dumb that they're being sued, there is no resale service by Valve and you agree to that when you sign up.
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post #44 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

In response to the "you don't own the games, you only buy a license".

As I've said a few times in the past, you are indeed buying a license, but not for yourself.

The way Steam works means you're actually buying a license FOR Steam, its just that Steam allows you to access those licenses provided you agree to any and all t&c conditions past, present or future, no matter what they are.
Quote:

I didn't know that. I will never buy from Steam again if this is true. Only hard copies from now on.
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post #45 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyd View Post

As much as I'd like to Valve to lose, it's really dumb that they're being sued, there is no resale service by Valve and you agree to that when you sign up.
Sueing them would hopefully change that. Why is that a bad thing?
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post #46 of 503
Because they don't deserve to lose the money from it.
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post #47 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I didn't know that. I will never buy from Steam again if this is true. Only hard copies from now on.

Most hard copies have to be activated via some kind of digital distribution service these days. So good luck, at least with most AAA games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Sueing them would hopefully change that. Why is that a bad thing?

Sueing one digital distribution service isn't going to change much, you'll have to go after the whole of the digital software world as they all have the same rules of "licensing". If anything I see more games becoming pay2play like WoW where you pay to play for x months and just quit when you're done.

They are a Service, you don't have to use the service, but you choose to do so.
post #48 of 503
I really hope they win. I hate Valve for making us not sell our own games.
post #49 of 503
There's really not an easy answer to this problem. It is also amusing how the woman in the article doesn't seem to know what's going on, even though her job revolves around this sort of stuff:
Quote:
Steam users own the games they purchase and should be able to resell them when they want to, just like owners of traditional card or board games can, said Carola Elbrecht, project manager for consumer rights in the digital world at the VZBV, on Thursday.

That's a very weak argument.
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post #50 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Sueing one digital distribution service isn't going to change much, you'll have to go after the whole of the digital software world as they all have the same rules of "licensing".

One word for you:

Precedent.


A lot of legal systems are built on precedent, once it has been set (either way) it can and will be referenced in any future cases.

Should Valve lose this case then a lot of other services will not even bother going to court if prosecuted as settling out of court will most likely have the same outcome for a lot less time and money.
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