Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 47

post #461 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiveron View Post

I don't agree with the being able to re sell digitally purchased games but I do agree that the games we buy through steam should be OUR property not valves. I hate that they reserve the right to ban someones steam account even if it's worth thousands.

That is incompatible. If they're yours then you can sell them. And whether you agree or not it's there. You can sell licences you own. Therefore you can sell steam games.
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
post #462 of 503
I read through the first 10 pages and ran out of time so if this has been mentioned before please forgive me and do not question the origins of my birth.

I think that we should be allowed to sell or give away or games for that matter if we so choose, now should the company selling the game be required to give the new owner the same online access that I had, no I do not think they should be required to do this for free, a small fee would be acceptable, remember they are paying for the costs of running the servers, this creates another bag of snakes for games like Diablo 3 were you have to be online in order to play.

I see the direction of PC gaming not going like WOW (you still have to buy the game to play) but more like World of Tanks were you can down load the game for free and even play for free but if you want upgrades or special privileges like being able to play with your friends then you will need a premium account and or in game currency that can be purchased on the games web page.

I still feel the golden age of PC gaming is behind us, no more will we have games like Counter strike or Battle field 2 were you purchased the game and got years of free company support via patches and server access
Just my humble opinio:thumb:n

(edited for Rubers post)
I posses many Licenses, a driver license, a fishing license, a hunting license, a license to perform opacity tests on heavy duty diesel engines, my brother has many licenses for his business, none of these licenses can be legally sold or possessed by someone other than me.

I do live in the USA, so there is that (land of the free)
Edited by slickwilly - 2/3/13 at 10:31am
Pa's Puter
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 i930@4.2ghz. Gigabyte EX58-UD4P EVGA GTX 970 FTW + GSkill DDR3-1600 12 gig 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung Evo SSD  DVDROM EK supreme HF Cu gold plated/ XSPC 480 Windows 7 Pro. 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG 27EA63 IPS monitor merc stealth Corsair TX850 Corsair 700D 
MouseMouse PadAudio
logitech G5 Rocketfish dual surface Creative Xfx extreme and Zalman 5.1 headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
Pa's Puter
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 i930@4.2ghz. Gigabyte EX58-UD4P EVGA GTX 970 FTW + GSkill DDR3-1600 12 gig 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung Evo SSD  DVDROM EK supreme HF Cu gold plated/ XSPC 480 Windows 7 Pro. 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG 27EA63 IPS monitor merc stealth Corsair TX850 Corsair 700D 
MouseMouse PadAudio
logitech G5 Rocketfish dual surface Creative Xfx extreme and Zalman 5.1 headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
post #463 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickwilly View Post

I read through the first 10 pages and ran out of time so if this has been mentioned before please forgive me and do not question the origins of my birth.

I think that we should be allowed to sell or give away or games for that matter if we so choose, now should the company selling the game be required to give the new owner the same online access that I had, no I do not think they should be required to do this for free, a small fee would be acceptable, remember they are paying for the costs of running the servers, this creates another bag of snakes for games like Diablo 3 were you have to be online in order to play.

I see the direction of PC gaming not going like WOW (you still have to buy the game to play) but more like World of Tanks were you can down load the game for free and even play for free but if you want upgrades or special privileges like being able to play with your friends then you will need a premium account and or in game currency that can be purchased on the games web page.

I still feel the golden age of PC gaming is behind us, no more will we have games like Counter strike or Battle field 2 were you purchased the game and got years of free company support via patches and server access
Just my humble opinio:thumb:n

(edited for Rubers post)
I posses many Licenses, a driver license, a fishing license, a hunting license, a license to perform opacity tests on heavy duty diesel engines, my brother has many licenses for his business, none of these licenses can be legally sold or possessed by someone other than me.

I do live in the USA, so there is that (land of the free)

Those licences are different and there is no way there would ever be an EU ruling say you can transfer those kinds of licences. But software is a different matter. But other than that, I totally agree with you.
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
post #464 of 503
Steam is the worst kind of DRM. The one that gives you a false sense of security.
post #465 of 503
While re-sale raises a host of new issues, I do believe This is needs to be addressed before the entire Industry switches to digital sales.
Win-A-Rig
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-3280 ASUS Rampage IV Formula LGA 2011 MSI N680GTX Twin Frozr 4GD5/OC  Corsair CMD16GX3M2A1866C10 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series 256GB Seagate Barracuda 3TB ASUS Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SA... CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i  
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 home edition ASUS VG Series VG278H Corsair Vengeance K90 CORSAIR HX Series HX750 
CaseMouseAudio
NZXT Phantom 820 Mate black None needed HT | OMEGA Claro Halo XT 
  hide details  
Reply
Win-A-Rig
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-3280 ASUS Rampage IV Formula LGA 2011 MSI N680GTX Twin Frozr 4GD5/OC  Corsair CMD16GX3M2A1866C10 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series 256GB Seagate Barracuda 3TB ASUS Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SA... CORSAIR Hydro Series H100i  
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 home edition ASUS VG Series VG278H Corsair Vengeance K90 CORSAIR HX Series HX750 
CaseMouseAudio
NZXT Phantom 820 Mate black None needed HT | OMEGA Claro Halo XT 
  hide details  
Reply
post #466 of 503
Theoretically, Valve could win on the argument that people can sell their account which provides the ability to resell their digital licenses. While this is obviously a perverted vision of what is intended. The user who sells the account is still literally "selling the digital licenses." While this method would not be preferred for consumers, that is not what the law states. It merely states that there must be an avenue for resale.

They would try at all costs to avoid a resale market within their system which allows the sale of licenses to other users, because even if they take a % cut, they ultimately lose money.

Additionally, a board game is something that can be physically held and is static in nature. It does not change. A video game changes with patches and the the purchase of a game entails one to a "license" or "lease" not ownership of the game. Ownership is held by the developers and publishers. This is why they can shut down servers of games that require severs to play. There is unfortunately a huge difference between something that physically exists and something that only exists digitally. Your disc if you choose to use one, is only an avenue to access, just as your shortcut on your desktop is an avenue towards access.
THOR
(30 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-3770K Z77 Extreme4 EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMI... Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD PNY CS1100 SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 SSD Western Digital Black Western Digital 7200rpm  Blu Ray/DVD/CD Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
LQ-310 Windows 10 Vizio D40u-D1-4 Seiki SE40FY27-0 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G910 Thermaltake TPG-750M Toughpower Grand GOLD 750W THOR V2 Logitech G700 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Nova Gaming Killer 2 Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Logitech G430 Newerr NW-700 Condenser Microphone League of Legends Mousepads Gamestop Xbox 360 Controllers 
OtherOther
Logitech C910 1080p Webcam DXRacer Tank OH/TC30/NR 
  hide details  
Reply
THOR
(30 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-3770K Z77 Extreme4 EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMI... Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD PNY CS1100 SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 SSD Western Digital Black Western Digital 7200rpm  Blu Ray/DVD/CD Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
LQ-310 Windows 10 Vizio D40u-D1-4 Seiki SE40FY27-0 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G910 Thermaltake TPG-750M Toughpower Grand GOLD 750W THOR V2 Logitech G700 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Nova Gaming Killer 2 Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Logitech G430 Newerr NW-700 Condenser Microphone League of Legends Mousepads Gamestop Xbox 360 Controllers 
OtherOther
Logitech C910 1080p Webcam DXRacer Tank OH/TC30/NR 
  hide details  
Reply
post #467 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Mars View Post

Theoretically, Valve could win on the argument that people can sell their account which provides the ability to resell their digital licenses. While this is obviously a perverted vision of what is intended. The user who sells the account is still literally "selling the digital licenses." While this method would not be preferred for consumers, that is not what the law states. It merely states that there must be an avenue for resale.

They would try at all costs to avoid a resale market within their system which allows the sale of licenses to other users, because even if they take a % cut, they ultimately lose money.

Additionally, a board game is something that can be physically held and is static in nature. It does not change. A video game changes with patches and the the purchase of a game entails one to a "license" or "lease" not ownership of the game. Ownership is held by the developers and publishers. This is why they can shut down servers of games that require severs to play. There is unfortunately a huge difference between something that physically exists and something that only exists digitally. Your disc if you choose to use one, is only an avenue to access, just as your shortcut on your desktop is an avenue towards access.

You own that copy, and the licence to play it.

And valve do not let you sell accounts. They ban anytime that happens.
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
The Riginator
(20 items)
 
 
Wife's Rig
(5 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon S600 Adreno 330 2GB LPDDR3 NAND Storage 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 32GB MicroSD Android 4.4.2 KitKat 5 inch (441ppi) 1080x1920 Super AMOLED SwiftKey 
Power
2600mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
post #468 of 503
Right but I would see them amending that ban before they allow for individual sale of licenses.

Valve also oversees your ownership of that license as you can be banned at any time. I believe the purchase is considered "as is" and you have the right to not purchase the product or purchase outside of Valve.

To be quite honest, I do not see a scenario where Valve loses. All precedent points in their favor.
Edited by General Mars - 2/3/13 at 2:06pm
THOR
(30 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-3770K Z77 Extreme4 EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMI... Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD PNY CS1100 SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 SSD Western Digital Black Western Digital 7200rpm  Blu Ray/DVD/CD Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
LQ-310 Windows 10 Vizio D40u-D1-4 Seiki SE40FY27-0 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G910 Thermaltake TPG-750M Toughpower Grand GOLD 750W THOR V2 Logitech G700 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Nova Gaming Killer 2 Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Logitech G430 Newerr NW-700 Condenser Microphone League of Legends Mousepads Gamestop Xbox 360 Controllers 
OtherOther
Logitech C910 1080p Webcam DXRacer Tank OH/TC30/NR 
  hide details  
Reply
THOR
(30 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-3770K Z77 Extreme4 EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMI... Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD PNY CS1100 SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 SSD Western Digital Black Western Digital 7200rpm  Blu Ray/DVD/CD Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
LQ-310 Windows 10 Vizio D40u-D1-4 Seiki SE40FY27-0 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G910 Thermaltake TPG-750M Toughpower Grand GOLD 750W THOR V2 Logitech G700 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Nova Gaming Killer 2 Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Logitech G430 Newerr NW-700 Condenser Microphone League of Legends Mousepads Gamestop Xbox 360 Controllers 
OtherOther
Logitech C910 1080p Webcam DXRacer Tank OH/TC30/NR 
  hide details  
Reply
post #469 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Mars View Post

Right but I would see them amending that ban before they allow for individual sale of licenses.

Valve also oversees your ownership of that license as you can be banned at any time. I believe the purchase is considered "as is" and you have the right to not purchase the product or purchase outside of Valve.

To be quite honest, I do not see a scenario where Valve loses. All precedent points in their favor.

What precedents?
 
Rebeccas Dator
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I5 2500K Asus P8P67 Pro  6950 DCII G.skill 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 330 Seagate Barracuda WD Green OCZ Vertex 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
H212 W7 21.5 Sidewinder x4/Lenovo with Trackpoint 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec 900w Define r2 MX518 Qpad 1.5mm 
Audio
Edifier R1900TII 2.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
II X4 965 Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-UD2H Sapphire 5770 DDR3 1600mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x 500gb DVD H212 windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3x Benq 21.5 inch X4 chieftec 650w Define mini 
Mouse
mx518 
  hide details  
Reply
 
Rebeccas Dator
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I5 2500K Asus P8P67 Pro  6950 DCII G.skill 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Intel 330 Seagate Barracuda WD Green OCZ Vertex 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
H212 W7 21.5 Sidewinder x4/Lenovo with Trackpoint 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec 900w Define r2 MX518 Qpad 1.5mm 
Audio
Edifier R1900TII 2.0 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
II X4 965 Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-UD2H Sapphire 5770 DDR3 1600mhz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
2x 500gb DVD H212 windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
3x Benq 21.5 inch X4 chieftec 650w Define mini 
Mouse
mx518 
  hide details  
Reply
post #470 of 503
As the article points out they won a similar lawsuit in 2010.
THOR
(30 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-3770K Z77 Extreme4 EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMI... Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD PNY CS1100 SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 SSD Western Digital Black Western Digital 7200rpm  Blu Ray/DVD/CD Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
LQ-310 Windows 10 Vizio D40u-D1-4 Seiki SE40FY27-0 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G910 Thermaltake TPG-750M Toughpower Grand GOLD 750W THOR V2 Logitech G700 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Nova Gaming Killer 2 Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Logitech G430 Newerr NW-700 Condenser Microphone League of Legends Mousepads Gamestop Xbox 360 Controllers 
OtherOther
Logitech C910 1080p Webcam DXRacer Tank OH/TC30/NR 
  hide details  
Reply
THOR
(30 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-3770K Z77 Extreme4 EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMI... Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMRAMHard DriveHard Drive
G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws X Series (F3-14900CL10-8GBXL) 8GB Samsung 850 EVO SSD PNY CS1100 SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 SSD Western Digital Black Western Digital 7200rpm  Blu Ray/DVD/CD Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
LQ-310 Windows 10 Vizio D40u-D1-4 Seiki SE40FY27-0 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G910 Thermaltake TPG-750M Toughpower Grand GOLD 750W THOR V2 Logitech G700 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Nova Gaming Killer 2 Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250 Sennheiser HD 280 Pro 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Logitech G430 Newerr NW-700 Condenser Microphone League of Legends Mousepads Gamestop Xbox 360 Controllers 
OtherOther
Logitech C910 1080p Webcam DXRacer Tank OH/TC30/NR 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Game News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership