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[PG] Valve Sued In Germany Over Game Ownership - Page 10

post #91 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Steam is a service, the game is the product, and the EU courts have said you have the right to resell a licence for a product you bought and the owner loses the right to limit the resale. Steam isn't the copyright owner, but they ARE the ones that limit and tie the game to your account.

I'm going to ignore the "might makes right" argument that governmental bodies have special moral insight.

We agree on the bold part. A game is a product, just like a movie is a product. A boxed game should be available for resale, just like a DVD is.
Steam is a service that gives me access to products, just like netflix does. The pay model is different between the two, but they are equally cloud services.

If Steam does implement reselling, I think it may be best for them to allow customers to deactivate their steam game and thus "free" their CD key, making it portable.

The problem with the EU ruling is, exactly as you mentioned, Valve is not the copyright holders. Transferability of game licenses (the actual product) is not up to them.
Edited by erunion - 2/1/13 at 1:33pm
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post #92 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

They are paid when the game sale is first made and they take a ~30% cut of the price. No, they do not have a right to a cut on your resale. The law says you are entitled to resell the product and since the ONLY way of doing that would be a transfer from steam to steam, I don't see why they should get a cut due to being the monopoly on that product.

So by your logic if i sell something on ebay and you buy it from me, ebay should be paying for the shipping?
    
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post #93 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

As for the idiotic "buy games at 75% off and resell" comments.

Steam could quite simply say you can't sell for more than you paid for it. They stop the ability to make a profit on the sales AND they still adhere to the right to resell. Problem solved. Buy a game for £3? Can't sell it for more than £3.

aaand you've just ruined all of your previous points, if Steam and the publisher have no right to take a cut from your used game sale then they also have no right to dictate how much you sell your game for. I don't think you've fully thought this one through.
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post #94 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

Ask yourself why PC games as a whole are cheaper and drop in price much much faster than console games? This is the way the market has played out. I'd much rather deal with not being able to sell a game than pay console prices for games. No used game discount is gonna amount to 75% off for the buyer the way we can snag games on sale currently.
Well that is your choice. And your choice should not take away the right of someone else to resell their game. If the games aren't discounted as much, then boo hoo. But if my right to resell is taken away, it gets a lot bigger than boo hoo...its a court case such as the one this thread is about.
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post #95 of 503
Ebay takes a cut form selling with their service.
If Valve implements a way to sell games with a built in client your damn right they should get a percentage. You don't get a service for free you know.
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post #96 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

aaand you've just ruined all of your previous points, if Steam and the publisher have no right to take a cut from your used game sale then they also have no right to dictate how much you sell your game for. I don't think you've fully thought this one through.


Well, no one ever said government mandates had to make sense. He could be right that it would satisfy the EUs demands.
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post #97 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

aaand you've just ruined all of your previous points, if Steam and the publisher have no right to take a cut from your used game sale then they also have no right to dictate how much you sell your game for. I don't think you've fully thought this one through.

I disagree. You haven't thought it through. There are plenty of other business models for Steam based on proper and legal game sales and resales. We are not obligated to uphold their current business model by any means. I certainly wont condone someone preventing me from selling MY stuff because someone else is getting a discount on their stuff. That is plain unjust! and shame on anyone who would agree that others rights can be violated for their personal gain. But if that is how you truely feel, lets see you pay and extra $150 on a new video card then give ASUS another $50 for selling the used card you own to some one here on OCN. I want to see you do it freely since you avidely agree with this.
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post #98 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I disagree. You haven't thought it through. There are plenty of other business models for Steam based on proper and legal game sales and resales. We are not obligated to uphold their current business model by any means. I certainly wont condone someone preventing me from selling MY stuff because someone else is getting a discount on their stuff. That is plain unjust! and shame on anyone who would agree that others rights can be violated for their personal gain. But if that is how you truely feel, lets see you pay and extra $150 on a new video card then give ASUS another $50 for selling the used card you own to some one here on OCN. I want to see you do it freely since you avidely agree with this.

But ASUS doesnt have any cost on your graphics card after youve bought it. Steam does have costs after its sold.

Anyways this is the way to go if you want to kill the PC as a gaming platform. Its already the least profitable platform as we can see with devs not releasing on pc or with late bad copy pasta ports and my guess would be that this will not help improve it.
    
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post #99 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I disagree. You haven't thought it through. There are plenty of other business models for Steam based on proper and legal game sales and resales. We are not obligated to uphold their current business model by any means. I certainly wont condone someone preventing me from selling MY stuff because someone else is getting a discount on their stuff. That is plain unjust! and shame on anyone who would agree that others rights can be violated for their personal gain. But if that is how you truely feel, lets see you pay and extra $150 on a new video card then give ASUS another $50 for selling the used card you own to some one here on OCN. I want to see you do it freely since you avidely agree with this.

I dont agree with the re-selling of digital games period, so no, I don't condone anyone getting a cut. That's just a reality that this is the only way it would work. If the publishers and the service are losing money than say goodbye to the games and services you enjoy.

and no you're not obligated to uphold their current business model but you are obligated to understand what a shift in the business model would mean in the end. Consumers would end up losing more than they gain.

and please tell me how what I'm suggesting is all about personal gain but what you're suggesting is not?
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post #100 of 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I disagree. You haven't thought it through. There are plenty of other business models for Steam based on proper and legal game sales and resales. We are not obligated to uphold their current business model by any means. I certainly wont condone someone preventing me from selling MY stuff because someone else is getting a discount on their stuff. That is plain unjust! and shame on anyone who would agree that others rights can be violated for their personal gain. But if that is how you truely feel, lets see you pay and extra $150 on a new video card then give ASUS another $50 for selling the used card you own to some one here on OCN. I want to see you do it freely since you avidely agree with this.

Yet again no one is forcing you to use steam...
Steam Clearly states its terms of service and everyone knows or can find out how steam truly works.

For most Steam logs in and works every day. As long as they are online for the most part they can play whatever game is in their library, Steam offers a great Product compared to the rest, And I for one would rather have my games in a central location where I can download and install them to any PC I see fit is quite nice. I don't like Disc, and not to fond of giving money to shady retailers. How many people do you know of have gotten their entire steam account banned? Or when ever has Steam been down for more then a short time?


Most don't care about resale when they already get the games for 5-20 bucks.
Edited by DzillaXx - 2/1/13 at 1:50pm
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