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Amd Steamroller. The secret weapon that could decimate Intel - Page 14

post #131 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

That doesn't help them much in the market. Lower end chips are mainly used for pre-built machines, which Intel has in its pocket. That isn't even about performance or anything, that is contracts/agreements with PC manufacturers. To me, if you are building your own PC and are an enthusiast, the minimum is an i5.

With enthusiasts, AMD has fallen out. Like I had mentioned before in a previous thread, the enthusiasts drive the market and one major group of enthusiasts are reviewers. They write their reviews of the chips, compare them, and put them on the internet. If I am a less than tech savvy person and I see two computers at a store, one with an AMD cpu and one with Intel, if I google the difference before I buy you will see the reviews that show low AMD performance and non recommendations. That is how enthusiasts drive the consumer market.

They are really in a bad way right now. They don't have the PC manufacturer relationship Intel has to sell low end, they don't have the performance to sell high end, and they don't have the power consumption to performance to sell mobile. They are putting everything into HSA and that is a huge risk.

Have you gone into any stores that sell PCs? AMD PCs are all over the place, just as much, if not more than Intel.

Enthusiasts drive nothing. Get your facts straight. Price is what sells. A family wants a new PC they go to Walmart with $300 to $500 worth of credit and buy what strikes them as a nice deal. The people at Walmart, Best Buy or Target are clueless in most cases so their advice will be useless. Monitor size will sell better than fast CPUs in PC bundles. Hard drive size will sell a PC better than CPU speed. Many of the boxes don't even tell you the detailed specs of the CPU anymore. Just that it's a dual core or quad core and a model number. If a general consumer goes and looks at all the review sites all they will see is a bunch of confusing graphs and ridiculously high priced computer parts listed. It doesn't help them to know that an Intel CPU that costs almost as much as they want to spend on the whole computer system, including keyboard, mouse, speakers and monitor... is faster than another one from AMD. That's not their market.

Almost nobody googles anything or else half of this forums' threads would not even be here. A lot of people don't even have internet of their own. My parents are still on dial up and half the people I work with just use a neighbors' wifi. Many others only use their phone plans for internet.

You are confusing enthusiasts (hobbyists) with the general public.
Edited by tout - 2/4/13 at 6:09am
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post #132 of 210
In for 20-30% higher IPC :yessir.gif:
Soon as it's verified biggrin.gif
 
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post #133 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by tout View Post

Have you gone into any stores that sell PCs? AMD PCs are all over the place, just as much, if not more than Intel.

Enthusiasts drive nothing. Get your facts straight. Price is what sells. A family wants a new PC they go to Walmart with $300 to $500 worth of credit and buy what strikes them as a nice deal. The people at Walmart, Best Buy or Target are clueless in most cases so their advice will be useless. Monitor size will sell better than fast CPUs in PC bundles. Hard drive size will sell a PC better than CPU speed. Many of the boxes don't even tell you the detailed specs of the CPU anymore. Just that it's a dual core or quad core and a model number.

Almost nobody googles anything or else half of this forums' threads would not even be here. A lot of people don't even have internet of their own. My parents are still on dial up and half the people I work with just use a neighbors' wifi. Many others only use their phone plans for internet.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement for AMD. I can imagine the marketing slogan now: "AMD: #1 With Uneducated Consumers!" Not to mention that the AMD CPUs in el-cheapo rigs from big-box stores aren't FX models, but A4/A6 and E1/E2 chips.
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post #134 of 210
Quote:
Have you gone into any stores that sell PCs? AMD PCs are all over the place, just as much, if not more than Intel.

Enthusiasts drive nothing. Get your facts straight. Price is what sells.

You must live in a small area. Go to Best Buy's website and pull up Computers and all-in-ones. Processor Brand: AMD(93) Intel(962).

If it was ALL about price, those numbers would be opposite and Intel would be struggling. Even the cheapest 300 dollar computers in this economy is an investment that people will research. I see 50 year old people in Microcenter looking up things on smartphones and generally older people aren't that tech savvy.

You are a very small minority. My Grandparents are nearing 80 years old and have cellphones and broadband internet.
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post #135 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

You must live in a small area. Go to Best Buy's website and pull up Computers and all-in-ones. Processor Brand: AMD(93) Intel(962).

If it was ALL about price, those numbers would be opposite and Intel would be struggling. Even the cheapest 300 dollar computers in this economy is an investment that people will research. I see 50 year old people in Microcenter looking up things on smartphones and generally older people aren't that tech savvy.

You are a very small minority. My Grandparents are nearing 80 years old and have cellphones and broadband internet.

That's online. Go in the stores. Hardly anyone I know will buy a PC online, it's too big of a package and too risky to ship. No the informed are the minority, you just don't understand. You know what research is to people? Reading reviews on Walmart or Best Buy's website. Not technical data, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

That's hardly a ringing endorsement for AMD. I can imagine the marketing slogan now: "AMD: #1 With Uneducated Consumers!" Not to mention that the AMD CPUs in el-cheapo rigs from big-box stores aren't FX models, but A4/A6 and E1/E2 chips.

Yes and those are 90% of AMD and Intel's customers. They are what generate the most cash flow, uneducated people who just want a new PC to surf the net, play Facebook games and Mahjong. You've actually proved my point. The enthusiast market is nothing.

I build PCs as side work, have been for years, almost 15 years now, jeez I'm getting old! Even if you explain the benefits of a custom PC (a cheap one at that, sub $500) they will, most times, still go to Walmart anyways. It's easier to just go get it, drive home, put it together and if something goes wrong, just bring it back to Walmart.

People like simple and convenient. Even if it means a less performing PC for the same money. Why do you think hundreds of millions of people shop at Walmart? It's not for the quality, I can tell you that. It's cheap and convenient.
Edited by tout - 2/4/13 at 6:27am
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post #136 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

Dominates? Hardly. It's not a badge of pride for AMD to be barely treading water with their 2nd-highest chip against Intel's lowest mid-range chip for most purposes.

Reasons that the i3-3220 is superior to the FX-6300:

1) Single-threaded performance in stock configuration is 33% faster than FX-6300 despite using 40% less watts (55w vs 95w). How much power does it take to OC a 6300 to parity with a 3220? 120 watts or more?

FX-6300-FX-4300-44.jpg

(Note that the chart above uses the 3225, which is identical to the 3220 except for a better IGP, which wasn't utilized in this benchmark.)

2) Integrated graphics. Say all you want about how lousy Intel's integrated graphics are, but at least they're usable for non-gaming purposes while you're waiting on your video card to be RMA'd. Redundancy is a good thing.

3) The 3220 costs $15-$20 less than the 6300 currently. And that doesn't include the $30+ aftermarket cooler required to rein in the monstrous heat output of the 6300 when you overclock it just in order to keep parity in single-threaded applications...

Yeah cause Cinebench shows real world performance rolleyes.gif

Most users would gain more from having more threads to scale things out on, single thread is already more then enough for most users. In the future as Internet browsers become more and more multi thread friendly and web pages them selves become more resource heavy, the ability to run things on more cores will be better then just having two brute force cores.

It's one thing to get the i3 for gaming especially if you have no lust to overclock, but a normal user would benefit more then the long run with a FX6300. Name a Single program that people will go "Oh why is this taking so long to process" on a FX6300 that wouldnt give a user the same effect with a i3 3220.

Though for tasks like this a APU is more suited as why would a normal user need a dedicated GPU. The A8 and A10 APU still is a overall more balanced chip then a i3 3220 and with a SSD in the mix I doubt most people couldn't even tell you what one is faster. Untill you open something GPU heavy and the i3 3220 lags out tongue.gif
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post #137 of 210
Quote:
People like simple and convenient. Even if it means a less performing PC for the same money.

You forgot one other trait of people like that: They are also very trusting. You have no idea how many people I have seen get warranties or buy things that an employee recommends when they aren't educated in what they are buying.

I frequent the Microcenter in my area and have walked around electronic stores, people listen to the employees there (which are usually somewhat enthusiasts in some way, especially at Microcenter). One big interest lately is SSD's, and there are a lot of people that will look at OCZ SSD's because of the price tag, but buy something a little more expensive because Microcenter employees don't recommend them. It is the same thing with computers. If you have a 300 dollar AMD and a 400 dollar Intel that someone is looking at, unless 400 is an impossibility for them they will probably buy the more expensive computer if an employee recommends it.
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post #138 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

You forgot one other trait of people like that: They are also very trusting. You have no idea how many people I have seen get warranties or buy things that an employee recommends when they aren't educated in what they are buying.

I frequent the Microcenter in my area and have walked around electronic stores, people listen to the employees there (which are usually somewhat enthusiasts in some way, especially at Microcenter). One big interest lately is SSD's, and there are a lot of people that will look at OCZ SSD's because of the price tag, but buy something a little more expensive because Microcenter employees don't recommend them. It is the same thing with computers. If you have a 300 dollar AMD and a 400 dollar Intel that someone is looking at, unless 400 is an impossibility for them they will probably buy the more expensive computer if an employee recommends it.

Also doesnt hurt that the people working at most retail stores are clueless and will tell someone that Intel is faster cause they see more Intel commercials on TV and are lead to believe AMD is nothing more then low end rip offs.

Just look at the Pentium 4's, worst CPU's on the planet yet Intel was pushing them out like hot cakes. Why? Because they can.
Show me a Dell with a Athlon 64 rolleyes.gif
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post #139 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

You forgot one other trait of people like that: They are also very trusting. You have no idea how many people I have seen get warranties or buy things that an employee recommends when they aren't educated in what they are buying.

I frequent the Microcenter in my area and have walked around electronic stores, people listen to the employees there (which are usually somewhat enthusiasts in some way, especially at Microcenter). One big interest lately is SSD's, and there are a lot of people that will look at OCZ SSD's because of the price tag, but buy something a little more expensive because Microcenter employees don't recommend them. It is the same thing with computers. If you have a 300 dollar AMD and a 400 dollar Intel that someone is looking at, unless 400 is an impossibility for them they will probably buy the more expensive computer if an employee recommends it.

You are correct but i am pretty sure the average Microcenter customer is more informed than a Walmart/Best Buy/Target customer. Microcenter is a small chain to begin with. There is only one in all of New England (where I live) that's a very large area with only one store. They are small time compared to Walmart, Best Buy or Target. I live next to two Walmarts within 10 miles of me.

If they are buying a SSD themselves then they are not a typical customer. They are the minority. We, who build PCs ourselves, are the tiny minority of the world. You need to realize this.

Intel, nVidia and AMD make very little money off high end gear but make tons off the low power cheap stuff because they sell those in quantity.
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post #140 of 210
Quote:
If they are buying a SSD themselves then they are not a typical customer. They are the minority. We, who build PCs ourselves, are the tiny minority of the world. You need to realize this.

That was just an example of a customer listening to an employee. You are right, Microcenter customers are probably not typical and even they listen to employees.
Quote:
Also doesnt hurt that the people working at most retail stores are clueless and will tell someone that Intel is faster cause they see more Intel commercials on TV and are lead to believe AMD is nothing more then low end rip offs.

I wouldn't say completely clueless. Also commercials have little to do with it. More like maybe not keeping up on completely current trends. Your example of Athlon 64 was what, one small blip in the last 20+ years that AMD was actually ahead in pure performance. I can say right now that Haswell will perform better Steamroller and probably have a 99% chance of being right without ever seeing a benchmark or test. That is just market trend. The fact that you recommend a brand even though it might not be the best performer at the time when that brand has dominated the last 8 years shows at least you follow the market enough to make a more informed decision than a customer would. Also information back then wasn't quite as easily accessible as it is today.
Edited by frozne - 2/4/13 at 6:54am
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