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post #21 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

What are PC gamers with specs that match the new consoles? Are they less core than the core?

PCs are generally more versatile and offer a wider range of products and better customizability. It's not always about the specs, but about what you can do with the device.
 
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post #22 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Panther222 View Post

Eh, i'll wait for Sony/Microsoft official announcement.

I agree
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post #23 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

PCs are generally more versatile and offer a wider range of products and better customizability. It's not always about the specs, but about what you can do with the device.

But we're talking about gaming and in the context of gaming, how are console gamers(who often spend the same amount of time and money on their hobby) less "hardcore" because their hardware is slower? Then what of the PC gamers with equal hardware to consoles?

I question his logic because it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny..hypocrisy NEVER does. A Swiss army knife does more than a butcher's knife, but I wouldn't want to slice beef with a 2 inch blade.
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post #24 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

But we're talking about gaming and in the context of gaming, how are console gamers(who often spend the same amount of time and money on their hobby) less "hardcore" because their hardware is slower? Then what of the PC gamers with equal hardware to consoles?

I question his logic because it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny..hypocrisy NEVER does. A Swiss army knife does more than a butcher's knife, but I wouldn't want to slice beef with a 2 inch blade.

I don't really see the point of the analogy.

Personally I've never claimed that console gamers are less "hardcore" (whatever that term even means) because of less powerful hardware.

I always assume that the difference comes from the PC's bigger game library, modding capabilities, customizability, better and numerous voip/chat/etc. clients, different form factors for different sorts of gaming, and so on. All of that is related to gaming.

I never understood the "hardware is more powerful = more hardcore" argument but I do understand it when people are comparing the things the hardware can actually do when combined with software. If a gamer has more options available to him/her and utilizes them I would think it's fair to call him more "hardcore". That's not to say there's anything wrong with any kind of gaming or that any gamer is better than others.
 
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post #25 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

But we're talking about gaming and in the context of gaming, how are console gamers(who often spend the same amount of time and money on their hobby) less "hardcore" because their hardware is slower? Then what of the PC gamers with equal hardware to consoles?

I question his logic because it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny..hypocrisy NEVER does. A Swiss army knife does more than a butcher's knife, but I wouldn't want to slice beef with a 2 inch blade.

I used to be a console gamer. In black ops I was in the top 100 for score per minute out of 800000 people. The controller itself makes games less hardcore. Auto aim made accuracy extremely easy for me with my progression up the ranks based of wisdom from previous games. Playing cod 4 on PC free-for-all (with 25 people and increased speed) makes my lymph nodes swell up and I cannot play for over a couple hours. This never happened on consoles. The Crysis 3 beta is giving me the same euphoria however there is no free for all yet frown.gif. The crazy stuff that is able to be performed with better controls itself makes shooters more hardcore. Also look at this video, try being this intense on a controller.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q

TL:DR
Skill cap on PC is much higher due a higher skill cap in controls and ability to mod games.
post #26 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

But we're talking about gaming and in the context of gaming, how are console gamers(who often spend the same amount of time and money on their hobby) less "hardcore" because their hardware is slower? Then what of the PC gamers with equal hardware to consoles?
No informed customer spends as much money on console gaming as on PC gaming, in that case they should have gone for PC gaming to begin with. Console gamers are less hardcore than PC gamers (fighting games excluded) because they have inferior control options and inferior response times, that's fact.
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post #27 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

No. DDR3 + ESRAM = 170GB/s effective memory bandwidth.

No... 102Gb/s for the SRAM is only for the frame buffer, the system RAM is what all the data and textures will be limited by.

Bandwidth starved!
post #28 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fateful_Ikkou View Post

Got to remember though that MS said they would be releasing two variants of the console. One for casual gamers(Lower Specs) and one for hardcore gamers(Higher Specs). It's possible that if this article is correct that it's possible this is the casual variants GPU specs.

That is such an old rumor, and very highly unlikely. Need to let that one go.
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post #29 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I don't really see the point of the analogy.

Personally I've never claimed that console gamers are less "hardcore" (whatever that term even means) because of less powerful hardware.

I always assume that the difference comes from the PC's bigger game library, modding capabilities, customizability, better and numerous voip/chat/etc. clients, different form factors for different sorts of gaming, and so on. All of that is related to gaming.

I never understood the "hardware is more powerful = more hardcore" argument but I do understand it when people are comparing the things the hardware can actually do when combined with software. If a gamer has more options available to him/her and utilizes them I would think it's fair to call him more "hardcore". That's not to say there's anything wrong with any kind of gaming or that any gamer is better than others.

I agree but that's kind of a moot point considering console gamers own PCs as well that will give them the "extra" functionality of the gaming PCs. That's why it makes no sense to judge consoles outside the context of gaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feild Scarecrow View Post

I used to be a console gamer. In black ops I was in the top 100 for score per minute out of 800000 people. The controller itself makes games less hardcore. Auto aim made accuracy extremely easy for me with my progression up the ranks based of wisdom from previous games. Playing cod 4 on PC free-for-all (with 25 people and increased speed) makes my lymph nodes swell up and I cannot play for over a couple hours. This never happened on consoles. The Crysis 3 beta is giving me the same euphoria however there is no free for all yet frown.gif. The crazy stuff that is able to be performed with better controls itself makes shooters more hardcore. Also look at this video, try being this intense on a controller.

I don't think you're the arbiter of what it takes to be deemed "hardcore".

You're showing me something that very few people, on any platform, can pull off and then fashioning as some sort of proof that is representative of PC gamers as a whole. The control mechanism is irrelevant and isn't a good indicator of what makes one more or less "hardcore" considering the playing fields are even on consoles. What you learned in CSS won't at all translate to something like COD4 with a gamepad. Most PC gamers don't like the pad with FPS because it "feels weird".

The game pad is inherently more limited than keyboard and mice, so that's why I'm not particularly impressed with what you can pull of on a keyboard with 108+ buttons that you can assign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arni90 View Post

No informed customer spends as much money on console gaming as on PC gaming, in that case they should have gone for PC gaming to begin with. Console gamers are less hardcore than PC gamers (fighting games excluded) because they have inferior control options and inferior response times, that's fact.

And no informed consumer spends more than $200 on a processor and graphics(each) when the overwhelming majority of games won't take advantage of the hardware. Face it, the term "hardcore" is just elitist jargon created by fanboys to try a distance themselves from the pack.

Give me proof or silence, because from what I see the only innate advantage PC gamers have are the lower latent controls...No auto-aim, high DPI, high refresh rate mice, and keyboards with ultra-high polling rates. There is no inherent advantage as much as you may no like the idea. Now consider the above statement before you try and post that PC/console cross-gaming article where the PC gamers beat the console gamers.wink.gif

FYI, there are a ton of console games that aren't on PC. Don't know why you're casually forgetting that little factoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

No... 102Gb/s for the SRAM is only for the frame buffer, the system RAM is what all the data and textures will be limited by.

Bandwidth starved!

No. That doesn't change the fact that the CPU and GPU have access to the SRAM, so the total effective bandwidth is 170GB/s. Its up to the developers where the buffers and textures go and in this case, it can go to either SRAM or DRAM.

Even ignoring the SRAM's bandwidth, the 768 stream processors aren't bandwidth limited. The desktop 7770 has 72Gb/s with GDDR5 on 128-bit bus, this GPU has 68Gb/s
Edited by BizzareRide - 2/4/13 at 11:58pm
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post #30 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arni90 View Post

Console gamers are less hardcore than PC gamers (fighting games excluded) because they have inferior control options and inferior response times, that's fact.

 

The idea that someone is more hardcore because they use a mouse and keyboard is probably the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.

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