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[wccf] NVIDIA GeForce Titan Features 6 GB Memory – Review Samples Already Shipped - Page 60  

post #591 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike88931 View Post

I realize this is a speculation but I went from pissing myself in excitement to feeling kind of "eh." After rmaing 2 ridiculously overpriced 6b 7970 cards i now have a 1200 dollar budget for gpus. I originally planned on getting one of these which at the time it was said would be 20 percent better than the 690 and was just going ot wait until i needed it more after the prices dropped. But now after hearing they may just be turned down teslas, not even as fast as the 690, and be very limited I am quite hesitant. Ido not want to spend 900 on one that is that weak compared to the original rumor if I will not be able to get another one for around 300 when the prices drop enough by the time i need another. Especially not with next gen cards being right around the corner and the fact i could get two 780's into my budget on release. The only real advantage of this over doing that is the 6gb of vram which comes in handy for extreme skyrim modding aficionados such as myself and the fact it offers sli performance without the dual gpu issues (or at least almost sli performance if latest rumors areto be trusted.

As everyone else, I am obsessively wishing for benchmarks ASAP!

ps hopefully i will have a complete absence of the ludicrously pathetic driver issues that accompanied me with the AMD cards...

I think this card is going to be a lot more expensive for a little more performance, relative to the 780, just like all top-of-the-line cards are. Look at the 670 and 680. ~5-7% more performance for $100 more. For Titan and the 780, I don't think the numbers will be exactly similar to those, but you get my point. It's always been like that for the best: minimal gain for a good chunk of loot. If you want the best, Titan will be the best. But you'll have to decide if the price-gap between the best and second-best is worth it for you.

Basically what I'm saying is benchmarks don't matter if you want the best. You'll be going with Titan if you do. If you, however, have a price/performance value you want to stay around, then you'll have to wait till both are out for a bit to see if the price jump is worth the performance.
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post #592 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dph314 View Post

I think this card is going to be a lot more expensive for a little more performance, relative to the 780, just like all top-of-the-line cards are. Look at the 670 and 680. ~5-7% more performance for $100 more. For Titan and the 780, I don't think the numbers will be exactly similar to those, but you get my point. It's always been like that for the best: minimal gain for a good chunk of loot. If you want the best, Titan will be the best. But you'll have to decide if the price-gap between the best and second-best is worth it for you.

Basically what I'm saying is benchmarks don't matter if you want the best. You'll be going with Titan if you do. If you, however, have a price/performance value you want to stay around, then you'll have to wait till both are out for a bit to see if the price jump is worth the performance.

If the 780 and 770 both do actually have 384bit memory bandwidth... I think the arguement is going to come down to which one has unlocked voltages or the better VRMs. Based on this chart, the titan obviously has the advantage, but its clocked so low, the amount of power you can get out of it will be severely throttled at the memory.

The way I'm looking at this, is there will be 1 memory controller now taking care of effectively 2 GPUs worth of cores. I think the far slower clock times on the memory and the harder work the controller will have to do, will be a huge limit to titans performance. If the release for 700 series pans out the way it does in these pictures, I can easily see the Titan beating the performance of the 690, because the card you really need to compare it against will likely be the 790, which should be 7-10% better, in normal NVidia fashion.
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post #593 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

If the 780 and 770 both do actually have 384bit memory bandwidth... I think the arguement is going to come down to which one has unlocked voltages or the better VRMs. Based on this chart, the titan obviously has the advantage, but its clocked so low, the amount of power you can get out of it will be severely throttled at the memory.

The way I'm looking at this, is there will be 1 memory controller now taking care of effectively 2 GPUs worth of cores. I think the far slower clock times on the memory and the harder work the controller will have to do, will be a huge limit to titans performance. If the release for 700 series pans out the way it does in these pictures, I can easily see the Titan beating the performance of the 690, because the card you really need to compare it against will likely be the 790, which should be 7-10% better, in normal NVidia fashion.

Actually, increasing the bus width by 50% pretty much automatically implies a +50% increase in the count of the memory controllers attached to the chip thumb.gif

Although, since the core count is going up by >50%, and it's already known that GK114 with a 256-bit bus can be bandwidth-limited, there's some legitimate cause for concern around the issue of available bandwidth for Titan, esp. given the purported memory downclocking to the 1300MHz range. That might also be part of why they're looking at only 732-ish for the core clock ... it may be they're seeing diminishing returns with further core increases due to bandwidth restrictions, and they're looking to put out a balanced part.

Hopefully people will be able to push the memory clocks on Titan like we see on GK114, wherein +250MHz (in actual frequency) OC's to the memory are fairly routine, and even +300-350MHz not unheard of.

At the clocks we're presently discussing, the Titan isn't going to even be in the same ballpark as a 690 in terms of raw fps, let alone 'beating' it. Not unless you're using a game w/terrible SLi scaling for comparisons.
Edited by brettjv - 2/11/13 at 12:15am
    
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post #594 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

Actually, increasing the bus width by 50% pretty much automatically implies a +50% increase in the count of the memory controllers attached to the chip thumb.gif

Although, since the core count is going up by >50%, and it's already known that GK114 with a 256-bit bus can be bandwidth-limited, there's some legitimate cause for concern around the issue of available bandwidth for Titan, esp. given the purported memory downclocking to the 1300MHz range. That might also be part of why they're looking at only 732-ish for the core clock ... it may be they're seeing diminishing returns with further core increases due to bandwidth restrictions, and they're looking to put out a balanced part.

Hopefully people will be able to push the memory clocks on Titan like we see on GK114, wherein +250MHz (in actual frequency) OC's to the memory are fairly routine, and even +300-350MHz not unheard of.

At the clocks we're presently discussing, the Titan isn't going to even be in the same ballpark as a 690 in terms of raw fps, let alone 'beating' it. Not unless you're using a game w/terrible SLi scaling for comparisons.

I believe the terrible SLI scaling is what most people are banking on for the titan. Also if you have seen the TPU pages for GTX 780, GTX 770, and Titan, you will see where I was drawing my information on the memory buses. The size of the transitor count for memory wasn't exactly my issue, more like the trouble with addressing 6 GBs of memory at the same speed as 2GBs of memory. If you're still using the same algorithm to address the space, the logical loops will take longer for the higher capacity. We already see with the 4GB versions, the GK104 does not scale well when you add extra memory at the higher clocks and you lose performance from the chips overall.
Edited by Avonosac - 2/11/13 at 2:55am
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post #595 of 1002
You'll find that this will be released in limited numbers like the GTX690.

This card will also replace the ultra dual GPU cards.

Then well have a normal GTX780 and GTX770 with a 10-15% increase over the 600 series.
post #596 of 1002
almlighty15, source ?
post #597 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifibuff View Post

almlighty15, source ?

Anything at this point is an opinion, so, I just think not everyone bothers putting a 'imo' at the end of their statements, since it's implied smile.gif
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post #598 of 1002
In a few days we'll know if the feb 18 rumor is true.
If the cores is locked we can atleast up the memory clocks but I don't think it will be a bottleneck as the tesla have this core clock.
But if you up the core (if you could) you might run into a memory bottleneck
post #599 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

In a few days we'll know if the feb 18 rumor is true.
If the cores is locked we can atleast up the memory clocks but I don't think it will be a bottleneck as the tesla have this core clock.
But if you up the core (if you could) you might run into a memory bottleneck

I would imagine the demands on memory from tesla work is very different than gaming. I think capacity is more important than performance in rendering large textures. I really think memory will be an issue with Titan. At least when trying to use it all.
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post #600 of 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

I believe the terrible SLI scaling is what most people are banking on for the titan. Also if you have seen the TPU pages for GTX 780, GTX 770, and Titan, you will see where I was drawing my information on the memory buses. The size of the transitor count for memory wasn't exactly my issue, more like the trouble with addressing 6 GBs of memory at the same speed as 2GBs of memory. If you're still using the same algorithm to address the space, the logical loops will take longer for the higher capacity. We already see with the 4GB versions, the GK104 does not scale well when you add extra memory at the higher clocks and you lose performance from the chips overall.

Ah, I see. Well, I can only respond to what's on the page, and you were talking as though you thought the # of memory controllers wouldn't be higher on Titan vs GK104, so ... I just wanted to clear it up ... there will be 50% more memory controllers.

And I don't know where you are drawing the point your current post from ... the way I see it, the core of GK104 (esp. the cut-down version in the 670) just isn't powerful enough in general to benefit from 4GB, even in SLi (this is per the review on [H]). It would require some pretty sophisticated tests to prove whether this is due to bandwidth restrictions in the memory subsystem, or just simple raw gpu grunt (calculations, rasterizing, etc), and ttbomk those tests have really not been done ... but if you have evidence to the contrary, I'd be keen to see it thumb.gif

And I've definitely not seen the proof that going to 4GB (in and of itself) hurts the perf of GK104, at least not outside the bounds of what could be explained by differences in actual operating frequency on the core clock on the models being tested, or looser timings on the 4GB model.

AFA SLi goes, I suspect 'scaling' will be much the same as GK104 (2GB or 4GB ... again, I've not seen evidence there's a difference in terms of SLi scaling), but with the caveat that CPU bottlenecking will be even more likely to come into play than it already is (which means a pretty high likelihood outside of surround resolutions ... in part because CPU's have not been getting faster at NEARLY the rate GPU's have over the past 4 years).
    
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