Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Anandtech] Microsoft Surface Pro Review
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Anandtech] Microsoft Surface Pro Review - Page 19

post #181 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz 
"The "most people do not need a full x86 tablet" is a dead point, due to the fact that they never had a viable choice on the market before October 26th 2012."

Why? Tell me, what does the average person do that you cannot do at adequate speeds on a normal ARM tablet? The difference was the tablets before the iPad were literally laptops that could do less and were harder to type into, the Surface Pro simply adds on to that...It doesn't completely change the game the way the iPad and various Android tablets did.
I've looked into it heavily, you're the one who is assuming stuff too rapidly, once again: Give me reasons why a normal person would take one over a much cheaper Nexus 7, Nexus 10, iPad, etc. You're talking about your use which is not mainstream, you even said you preferred the ATIV which furthers my point that the Surface Pro just doesn't really have that much of a market, the other Windows 8 tablets/convertibles are superior. Also, if you're going to be complaining about 1.6KG then I have no idea how you manage to carry any of that around at all, I'm carrying heavy guitar amps, computers, etc all the time as part of my various hobbies, University work and my job...For the most part a convertable would be superior to the Surface Pro as it can fold into a tablet, but can still be pretty much a light laptop with a different hinge if you need to type. Is it for you? No, but you're not disproving what I was saying in that the Surface Pro is a niche product at best.

You said "They", who else are they? Deep Sea Angler Fish? Eagles? The CIA? Your analogy about PC gaming being worse thanks to the Xbox and PS3 doesn't work and only proves my point, PC gaming (Surface Pro) can do more than what console gaming (Nexus 7, iPad, Nexus 10, etc) can do...However that doesn't make it more popular as most people are fine with what the consoles do for gaming.
It's not, both are tablets when it comes down to it, both will compete...Not many users are going to look at the Surface Pro and think "That's not a tablet!"
You can hardly talk about ignorant posting, you're completely ignoring what I'm saying in order to go "BUT IT CAN BE USEFUL!!!!" without actually saying why, I've given valid reasons as to why most people won't have a use and all you've done is talk about how it'd be useful for you while trying to imply that I'm doing just that, unless you bring something solid to the table instead of your usual "ignore what they said, repeat what I said" strategy then I'm not replying again.

1.
You want me to give you a reason why a person would choose an x86 running computer in the shape of/with the capabilities of a tablet, vs a Nexus 7?

Really?

You can't work that out for yourself?

2.
I didn't "prefer" the ATIV, it simply released before the Surface Pro and I was jonesing lol. If it was available on time I probably would've bought one. Even now I'm still looking around to try different types out since there are so many options. Would be great if I could actually see a SP but that won't happen any time soon.

3.
Why are you comparing how much you carry etc to what I do in my job? Who cares?

I'm not complaining about carrying around 1.6KG. You asked me why a person would want to use a SP over a thinkpad twist that is supposedly "better".

I gave you one.

Its larger and heavier and doesn't offer the same elegance in "on foot" usage that an actual tablet format provides. If you're actually a person who needs to use a laptop in an actual professional environment where a lot of movement and data input is needed, you'd know precisely what I'm talking about.

You can sling an ATIV or a SP in a cover with carry handles and walk around with it without too much heft or cumbersome dimensions hampering movement etc.

You are indeed being very ignorant in that respect by attempting to assert that the Thinkpad Twist is even slightly comparable in that respect. It isn't, by a long shot.

Asking me how everyone else would use theirs is to ignorantly assume that I would know. I can give personal use situations because its something that I've thought about and used to influence purchase of a similar form factor vs the laptop that turns into a tablet form factor.

If you want to know what other people would use it for, ask them. Me not being able to answer for other people isn't a positive to your argument.

4.
Quote:
Your analogy about PC gaming being worse thanks to the Xbox and PS3 doesn't work and only proves my point, PC gaming (Surface Pro) can do more than what console gaming (Nexus 7, iPad, Nexus 10, etc) can do...However that doesn't make it more popular as most people are fine with what the consoles do for gaming.

Actually, you've CONFIRMED the point I was actually making, in that just because something is not the most popular thing doesn't make it bad or mean that nobody will want to use it.


5.
Calling a Nexus 7/iPad "better" than a Surface Pro is ignorance. Plain and simple.

Tell me how I can install my Windows data entry software on a Nexus 7/iPad and I'll concede. Until then, I'll continue to believe that words like "better" work on a case by case basis, usually because different people have different opinions and needs.

1) Ever tried typing an essay, resume, cover letter, etc on a tablet? That's one reason why the tablet will never take over the desktop market...As I've been saying in virtually every Windows 8 tablet related topic to date, I'd imagine you'd have remembered at least that if nothing else.

2) Fair enough, I got the wrong impression from your other post in that regard.

3) I'm not, but you said that it's larger and heavier...You could no doubt find something to hold it easily too, or simply find another way to carry it as most humans are capable of doing. If I can carry my 15.6" laptop while also walking my bass, guitar, guitar amp and bass amp then anyone can carry a 12.6" convertible with the stuff you said in your other post. Have you ever had to move a decent bass amp? Or guitar amp? A practice bass amp weighs much more than a laptop and is much more inconvenient to carry dfue to having one handle in an awkward position, that makes carrying even a normal thick laptop ridiculously easy...And my point is for the mainstream who will not be carrying the kind of stuff you do around, a SP might work for you like the ATIV is but I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the person who uses their laptop for Facebook and a few other things and only utilizes its portability to move it from house to house or to use it on the couch. I know roughly what most people use a PC or tablet for, the amount who

4) ...And that's against my point how? I'm saying the SP doesn't work as a mainstream kind of thing which MS clearly wants it to be, otherwise they wouldn't be advertising it so heavily. (Especially considering their ads rip off the most popular company on the planet right now blatantly)

5) It is, from the perspective of what most people use a tablet for, you get either equal or better battery life and functionality for a substantially cheaper cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Why would you NOT want x86 programs?
If you want, you can use the Surface PRO strictly as a tablet and never even see the desktop view. Play angry birds all you want if you so desire. But with a surface Pro, I can download Daemontools, create Virtual disk drives and install ISOs of any program/game I've ever had. I could download bittorent on the thing if I wanted. I'm not limited to any bloatware that tablets make you use. I can use VLC player for my videos. I can game, plug in an xbox controller, use a wireless controller if I wanted, and play at very respectable settings. You can literally do any job on the go with this. I would have never thought that people were satisfied with just APPS, especially not on this forum.

Uh, the extra cost? I could get a Nexus 7, install VLC, the many emulators and games on Androids market, (As well as a PS3 controller) a torrent client, (hardly even the best one, I searched torrent and that was the first result I saw) and have nearly everything you just listed for a much lower price.
You clearly no virtually nothing about ARM tablets, all of what you listed bar the full PC games is possible...But why would I even want to play modern PC games on it? They're not going to be optimized for the tablet format and it'd be uncomfortable as all hell trying to play Fallout 3 (As an example) on that tiny screen, I'd rather stick to emulated games and leave PC games to the platform that comes with a good mouse and keyboard. (ie. My desktop)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

you really think Ipad's pixel density is a game changer? The Surface Pro has a ppi of 208, compared to ipad 2's 163 and ipad 3's 264. For perfect visual acuity, you'd have to view the ipad 2 from 26 inches away, a ipad 3 at 13 inches away, and a SF: PRO from 16.5 inches away. That's it, 3 inch difference. I doubt people hold their ipad 3's just 13 inches from their face. Most people will have it from 1.5-2 feet away. Especially if you're doing work on it. If you're watching Netflix....big whoop, not like the Ipad is better for video with its 4:3 aspect ratio.

So then the Google Nexus comes out with a complete 1600p screen.....shouldn't the Apple fanboys clamor over the screen with the bigger number?? Isn't "retina" a little watered down now? It's gimmicky marketing

PS: By gimmicky, i don't mean useless (a la PS3 move/ Kinect), but PPI is nearly irrelevant at the point we're at. Our eyes have a finite resolution, that's not going to change unless you have superman eyes. The higher resolution is nice, but at a horrible cost, the Ipad 2 (if it was given the ipad 3's battery) would last at least 20 hours

You can blather on about the maths of PPI all you like, I certainly noticed the ~40 extra PPI going from my SGSII to a HTC Desire when the SGSII broke, although I admit I am short sighted and probably more sensitive to it than most people are.

...And have you ever used a tablet? You certainly do not hold it at arms length, most people tend to have it 30-40cm away from what I've seen, (11-15 inches) maybe 1.5ft away if you stretch it...2ft though? That's bloody insane, maybe if you're long sighted.
Yes, our eyes have a finite resolution however we're still not there yet for phones bar the highest end ones, but we are for some tablets, my idea is a phone that enables me to have virtually perfect screen quality (Ie. Not able to see pixels at all) no matter what while still having decent battery life.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
post #182 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

1) Ever tried typing an essay, resume, cover letter, etc on a tablet? That's one reason why the tablet will never take over the desktop market...As I've been saying in virtually every Windows 8 tablet related topic to date, I'd imagine you'd have remembered at least that if nothing else.

2) Fair enough, I got the wrong impression from your other post in that regard.

3) I'm not, but you said that it's larger and heavier...You could no doubt find something to hold it easily too, or simply find another way to carry it as most humans are capable of doing. If I can carry my 15.6" laptop while also walking my bass, guitar, guitar amp and bass amp then anyone can carry a 12.6" convertible with the stuff you said in your other post. Have you ever had to move a decent bass amp? Or guitar amp? A practice bass amp weighs much more than a laptop and is much more inconvenient to carry dfue to having one handle in an awkward position, that makes carrying even a normal thick laptop ridiculously easy...And my point is for the mainstream who will not be carrying the kind of stuff you do around, a SP might work for you like the ATIV is but I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the person who uses their laptop for Facebook and a few other things and only utilizes its portability to move it from house to house or to use it on the couch. I know roughly what most people use a PC or tablet for, the amount who

4) ...And that's against my point how? I'm saying the SP doesn't work as a mainstream kind of thing which MS clearly wants it to be, otherwise they wouldn't be advertising it so heavily. (Especially considering their ads rip off the most popular company on the planet right now blatantly)

5) It is, from the perspective of what most people use a tablet for, you get either equal or better battery life and functionality for a substantially cheaper cost.
Uh, the extra cost? I could get a Nexus 7, install VLC, the many emulators and games on Androids market, (As well as a PS3 controller) a torrent client, (hardly even the best one, I searched torrent and that was the first result I saw) and have nearly everything you just listed for a much lower price.
You clearly no virtually nothing about ARM tablets, all of what you listed bar the full PC games is possible...But why would I even want to play modern PC games on it? They're not going to be optimized for the tablet format and it'd be uncomfortable as all hell trying to play Fallout 3 (As an example) on that tiny screen, I'd rather stick to emulated games and leave PC games to the platform that comes with a good mouse and keyboard. (ie. My desktop)
You can blather on about the maths of PPI all you like, I certainly noticed the ~40 extra PPI going from my SGSII to a HTC Desire when the SGSII broke, although I admit I am short sighted and probably more sensitive to it than most people are.

...And have you ever used a tablet? You certainly do not hold it at arms length, most people tend to have it 30-40cm away from what I've seen, (11-15 inches) maybe 1.5ft away if you stretch it...2ft though? That's bloody insane, maybe if you're long sighted.
Yes, our eyes have a finite resolution however we're still not there yet for phones bar the highest end ones, but we are for some tablets, my idea is a phone that enables me to have virtually perfect screen quality (Ie. Not able to see pixels at all) no matter what while still having decent battery life.

yes,1.5-2 feet. I don't sit curled over my Surface while typing. i sit back in my chair and type like a normal person. Proper posture! tongue.gif

Rare instance, trying to get Comptia Server +, I buy a book, it comes with a CD, I had an Asus Zenbook at the time, so I ripped an ISO on my desktop and saved the ISO on my dropbox. I could install Daemontools and the ISO on my Zenbook and boom, I could run my practice tests/etc.... Just like you can with a Surface Pro. I could run active directory on this, wireshark, programs you take for granted, but STEAM...ALLLLL of my Indie games that I've purchased. Why would you want those games limited to my desktop? Why pay for a bunch of Apps when I have access to all my games? Admittedly, in a perfect world, the Surface Pro would have 20 hours of battery life...but it doesn't. What is does have though is a ridiculous amount of capabilities that no other tablet (especially the Nexus 7) has
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
Main Rig
(13 items)
 
Secondary Rig
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k MSI Z77A-GD65 Gigabyte 780 OC Gigabyte 780 OC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Ripjaw  Samsung F3  Samsung 830  Asus CD-Rom 
CoolingMonitorMonitorPower
Cooler master hyper 212+  Asus  27in 1440p Auria EQ276W 760 Watt Silencer 
Case
Haf 912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k ASRock Z77 Pro4-M 290 XFX DD R9 280X Gigabyte 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
R9 280X MSI Gaming R9 280X Power Cooler Crucial Ballistix  Samsung 830 series 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
WD Black Asus 24x Windows 7 Asus 24in  
MonitorPowerCase
27in 1440p Auria CM 750 600T 
  hide details  
Reply
post #183 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

yes,1.5-2 feet. I don't sit curled over my Surface while typing. i sit back in my chair and type like a normal person. Proper posture! tongue.gif

Rare instance, trying to get Comptia Server +, I buy a book, it comes with a CD, I had an Asus Zenbook at the time, so I ripped an ISO on my desktop and saved the ISO on my dropbox. I could install Daemontools and the ISO on my Zenbook and boom, I could run my practice tests/etc.... Just like you can with a Surface Pro. I could run active directory on this, wireshark, programs you take for granted, but STEAM...ALLLLL of my Indie games that I've purchased. Why would you want those games limited to my desktop? Why pay for a bunch of Apps when I have access to all my games? Admittedly, in a perfect world, the Surface Pro would have 20 hours of battery life...but it doesn't. What is does have though is a ridiculous amount of capabilities that no other tablet (especially the Nexus 7) has

Neither do I, but because it's not a laptop I'd most likely be holding it and not be curled up.
You do realize quite a number of indie games also are on Android? Osmos, World of Goo, etc all have Android ports (Which I got for cheap thanks to one of those Humble Bundles) because they work well on a portable tablet device, if I wanted gaming on the go I'd just skip getting a tablet and buy an Alienware m11x
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570k @ 4.5Ghz ASRock Z77 Pro3 Powercolor Radeon HD7950 3GB @ 1150/1350 4x4GB G.Skill Ares 2000Mhz CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 840 250GB Western Digital Black 1TB WD1002FAEX Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Samsung Spinpoint EcoGreen 2TB 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer DVR-220LBKS Noctua NH-D14 Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850rpm Corsair AF140 Quiet Edition 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Arcitc Cooling Acclero Twin Turbo II Arch Linux x86-64, amdgpu BenQ G2220HD BenQ G2020HD 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine III Year of the Snake, Cherry Blue Silverstone Strider Plus 600w CoolerMaster CM690 II Black and White SteelSeries Sensei Professional 
Mouse PadAudioOther
Artisan Hien Mid Japan Black Large ASUS Xonar DX NZXT Sentry Mesh 30w Fan Controller 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Anandtech] Microsoft Surface Pro Review