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new project. suggestions much appreciated.

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post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I had a few posts previously on this forum asking for help, however I never had enough time to work on anything as the navy does not believe in free time. Now due to a case of arson I will not be going to sea on my submarine in the forseeable future ane will hopefully have some more time on my hands. No I didnt start the fire wink.gif if it intrigues you look up the uss miami fire, it makes for a rather interesting read. Anyway on to the matter of importance.

My budget for pc components and the cooling loops are roughly 4-5k I already several components: 3930k intel i7 cpu 3.4ghz stock
Asrock extreme 11motherboard
16gb gskill 1833 ram
1600watt lepa gold power supply
2gb gtx 680 classified evga

So my plan is to dump the 2gb 680 for either 3/4 4gb 680s or 3gb 7970s. Possibly getting new higher clock ram and I may need a second psu. My plan is to make a completely custom case similar in regards to the l3p d3sk. I plan to have a glass surface with a recessed middle section that houses all of the components. Possibly divided segments throughout with fans as the divider to creating a strong wind current throughout and also look awesome. Debating about 1 or 2 radiators for symmetry and currently looking at the frozenq x4 res. As for pumps I am wondering if the iwaki md-30 rzt would be a good fit as I will have a large amount of blocks as well as a mo-ra3 that will be hidden below the desk. If anyone has any recommendations on blocks or other components I would appreciate it. I will hopefully finish my concept drawing of everything tomorrow and if I can figure out how to use sketchit I may use that for a better picture.

The only thing that I think I really require help on would be connecting everything. In the end I would like to have waterblocks for my cpu, gpus, ram, motherboard full cover (should be out by the end of the month according to ek rep I emailed), plus 1/2 reservoirs, pump, radiator (s).

If the pump has a 1" inlet and outlet nozzle then would it be bad to divide into smaller parallel channels? My worry with this is that if one channel has a higher restriction than it would possibly not get enough cooling flow... the idea I had was


Reservoir===md-30 rzt===1"===/=3/4" to cpu=1/2" from cpu== split to dual 1/4" to vrm, ram, ram,
plx and lsi then to radiator


=3/8" to cpu=5/8" from cpu to radiator
=1/4 to gpu_1===rad
=1/4 to gpu_2===rad
=1/4 to gpu_3===rad
=1/4 to gpu_4===rad

MO-RA3 has 6x1/4 nozzles so have 3x1/4" inlets and 3x1/4" outlets going to reservoirs which then feed the pump...

Sorry how bad this probably looks. Will upload pic tomorrow with blocks and parts and tubes connecting. My thought process is that with the increase in tubing and weter in the system and dedicated tubing to crucial components the overall delta fir components should be low and when recombining the overall effect is an increase in pressure as well as volumetric flow rate. I think this would work however it has been a while since ive thought of fluid flow concepts.

Also would separate radiators be more beneficial? Dont really care how they will look as they will be hidden under desk so best performance is the goal. Thank you for reading and any help provided. Sorry about grammar or typos as I hate virtual keyboards and am using my phone.
Oh and all of this will be in the effort of pushing 4320x2560 or possibly even 7200x2560
post #2 of 13
Thread Starter 
Alright this should really help with visualizing what I am thinking about. As I was drawing it changed a bit. I want to do parallel flow paths as it should provide better temperatures overall to each component rather than just the cpu and then each one after going up.



post #3 of 13
Firstly, are you sure you _really_ want an Iwaki? It's big, noisy, and hot.
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
From what ive seen online of md japanese models they seem to run at a pretty decent noise level for the performance. Plus I think ill have enough fans running that jt probably wont matter. Planning on 9x140mm for rad and at least 10-12 for custom desk. If you were doing project what would you use?
Oh and as fir the size it shouldnt matter as im making an under section of the desk thats hidden and will be far from components to avoid EMI. And the heat shouldnt be a big issue with a rather large loop correct?
post #5 of 13
So a total of five 140.4 radiators, four GPUs, one CPU, Chipset, VRM, and two RAM blocks?

The design I'm using for my system is: Flow Diagram (Click to show)
Code:
    (Tmp)
      v
    .---.
    |Res|
    |   |<---------------+-----------.
    |   |<------.        |           |
    '---'     (Flo)    (Flo)       (Flo)
   .-' '-.      ^        ^           ^
   v     v      |        |           |
 (Pmp) (Pmp)    |      (Tmp)       (Tmp)
   |     |      |        ^           ^
   v     v      |        |           |
 (480) (560)    |        |           |
   |     |      |     .--+--.        |
   |     |      |     |     |        |
   v     v      |   (Mof) (Chp)      |
 (560) (560)    |     ^     ^        |
   |     |      |     |     |        |
   |     |      |   (RAM) (RAM)      |
   v     v      |     ^     ^        |
 (560) (480)    |     '--+--'     .--+--.
   '--+--'      |        |        |     |
      v         |      (CPU)    (GPU) (GPU)
    .---.       |        ^        ^     ^
    |Res|-------'        |        '--+--'
    |   |->(Pmp)---------'           |
    |   |->(Pmp)---------------------'
    '---'
      ^
    (Tmp)

I'm using multiple pumps so I can control flow to each part of the system as needed. If you used an Iwaki, you could do something similar (but fixed-ratio) with just the one pump and use a valve to determine how much water went to your CPU vs GPUs.

With four GPUs, you'll probably want to go 2x2 parallel/series so you don't have too much restriction, but get plenty of water to all four. With the Iwaki you need to pay attention to your pressure more to prevent pressure leaking than out of pressure needed to overcome restriction. I don't think block o-ring seals and compression fittings are designed to withstand 15psi.
Edited by Electrocutor - 2/7/13 at 10:05pm
post #6 of 13
Thread Starter 
Yeah pretty much but I was debsting about just using a 9x140mm rad. But I actually really like your layout. I never thought about throttling flow... I havent seen any valves on any of the sites or do you just mean by adapters? With that setup do you have any idea what temp the water is leaving your cpu block? My only concern is I read recently that the plxpex chips run rather hot on the extreme11. Also what pumps are you using? Sorry to ask so many questions but how does that flowmeter between the two reservoirs function? I understand the concept of differential pressure across a pump or valve would work or am I looking at it wrong?

Edit: I understand d/p but I just dont see how that would work in a non pressurized system in surge volumes...
post #7 of 13
Quote:
I actually really like your layout. I never thought about throttling flow.
How you design your loop and what blocks you use will dictate how much pump you need. In my loop, I really only _need_ one MCP35X or two D5s, but I decided to use four and run them all slower so I have more control of where the water goes and can run really high flow rates where I want to.
Quote:
I havent seen any valves on any of the sites or do you just mean by adapters?
There's many different valves, here's a couple examples:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14596/ex-tub-1035/Bitspower_G14_Mini_Valve_-_Matte_Black_BP-MVV-MBK.html
http://www.aquatuning.us/product_info.php/info/p3615_2-way-ball-valve-13mm--1-2---High-flow-PE.html
Quote:
With that setup do you have any idea what temp the water is leaving your cpu block?
There is very little temperature difference in the water between components. If you ran furmark with all of your GPUs, it would probably only increase water temp by 4C to 5C between all GPUs in and out. The CPU uses about 200 watts max, so you'd probably only see a 1C to 2C temp increase. This, of course, depends on how fast your water is running.
Quote:
Sorry to ask so many questions but how does that flowmeter between the two reservoirs function?
I intend to use the flow meter there to make sure that the water never runs in reverse. That channel is my recirculator, so it directly allows me drop my Air/Water delta without changing the flow rate through the blocks. Since my radiators are in parallel, each with a pump, and both the CPU and GPU loops each have a pump; with everything maxed out, my recirculator flow rate would be equal to the amount of restriction in the CPU and GPU loops minus the amount of restriction in the radiators. Since the radiators are much less restrctive than blocks, the flow in the recirculator would always be positive if the pumps all ran the same speed. Since the pumps will be dynamically controlled, that flow meter is necessary to prevent hot water from bypassing the radiators if the CPU/GPU pumps were running faster than the radiator pumps.

As misfortune would have it, the Aquacomputer Aquasuite does not allow controllers to be made based on flow sensors, only temp sensors; but it does allow you to load profiles based on flow sensors, so I intend to use that ability to prevent backflow in the recirculator sub-loop and use the flow sensor in there as an alarm (unless a better alternative presents itself).
post #8 of 13
Thread Starter 
Ok it took a ciuple times reading to realize you are preventing backflow due to one pump overcoming the other or at least thats what I think was your goal. Although realistically with a reservoir which provides extremely low restriction (or at least I assume it would) would most likely never allow backflow anyway. Thank you very much for all th3 info. I think I still would like to do a iwaki just for th3 heck if it. Im thinking about going nuts and getting two, one for dedicated flow to my gpus and one for dedicated flow ti everything else. Id only be spending 100 more than you did on pumps and they are really reliable. One last question if you dont mind. How much did you spend total on your loop?

Edit: also do you know of any reservoirs that have a bigger than 1/4 inlet and outlet? So far all I can find seem to be 1/4
Edited by dctravis - 2/7/13 at 10:52pm
post #9 of 13
Quote:
you are preventing backflow due to one pump overcoming the other or at least thats what I think was your goal
Correct.
Quote:
Although realistically with a reservoir which provides extremely low restriction (or at least I assume it would) would most likely never allow backflow anyway.
If the pumps on the CPU and GPU sub-loops were full on and the radiator pumps were low, it would backflow.
Quote:
How much did you spend total on your loop?
It's not done yet. I'm waiting until after taxes to finish to be sure I have enough play money left to finish. I'll do an expense summary at the end of my build log.
Quote:
do you know of any reservoirs that have a bigger than 1/4 inlet and outlet?
#1) A split is also a combiner: you could combine more than one G1/4" to go to the same place if you wanted.
#2) Look up Stren from these forums: he came up with a good reservoir solution for Iwaki's I think (http://www.overclock.net/u/154976/stren).


A rule of thumb when splitting a single pump's flow into parallel: don't split into more than two paths or the flow rate will become too low in each path. In the case of the Iwaki, I would expand that to three paths if you plan to run it between 18v and 24v; if you intend to throttle the pump as much as possible, then stick with a max of two parallel paths. Also, be sure that each path has equal (or very close to equal) pressure drop.

Here's a little light reading so you know where you're starting at: http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Iwaki-RD-30-Pump-Review.html.
post #10 of 13
The mechanical flow sensors don't know if they are running forwards or backwards ... they just count rotations.

The MPS flow sensors are directional but they have a minimum flow rate and I don't know if they register anything in reverse
Kusanagi
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA GTX 780 SC Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY16GX3M2A2133C11 16GB 
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Kusanagi
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3570K Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA GTX 780 SC Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY16GX3M2A2133C11 16GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB X2 EK Supremacy Aqua Computer Aquaero 6 Pro Aqua Computer D5 USB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Aquacomputer MPS 400 flow meter EK-CoolStream PE 360 EK-Coolstream PE 240 Noiseblocker Eloop B12-PS 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EK Vardar F2 EK-FC Titan Acetal & Nickel EK-RAM Monarch X4 Clean CSQ - Acetal+Nickel EK-D5 X-RES 140 CSQ 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Win 8.1 Pro 64 bit Samsung S27A750d LG E2290V-SN Silverstone Strider Plus 850W ST85F-P 
Case
Corsair Obsidian 750D 
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