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[Twitter] Sim City 5 Main Sim + Game Loop Will Be Single-Threaded - Page 7  

post #61 of 257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

This is gonna be a wait for origin sale game.

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post #62 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magariz View Post

Crazy to think it is cliche to say, but look at what the original Crysis did.

And just look at all of Cevat's whinging at the time about how piracy tanked Crysis' sales when the real issue was not nearly enough people could actually run it (and they knew this so they pirated it to see if they could run it, and when they couldn't, they didn't buy it). Why do you think they went multiplatform with 2 and 3? Focusing solely on top-tier PC doesn't make for the best revenue stream. rolleyes.gif
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post #63 of 257
Running the main simulation on one core, and sound, input, rendering etc on the others DOES NOT EQUAL "single threaded"...

The topic title is totally misleading.
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post #64 of 257
IT'S EVOLUTION BABY!
    
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post #65 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven.7 View Post

Have you ACTUALLY played CitiesXL? If so, you'd know the game chokes and memory starts leaking heavily at 50K population.

CitiesXL is the epitome of a game that needed to be compiled to take advantage of multi-core CPUs, yet wasn't and therefore the experience is completely ruined.

This is why Maxis' decision to use single-threading bothers me, and they chose to limit city sizes as the easy way out.

Because you just need a compiler switch to enable multi threading.

Really.

While I agree that it's not acceptable that technology advances on and software does not utilize it to its potential, multithreading IS NOT easy, especially when it comes to games. What exactly would you have them split over threads?

Look at what a game is: a loop with different inputs and outputs. In this case, the inputs are the keyboard and mouse, and the outputs are what you see on the screen and hear. Each of those will have their own thread, the game WOULD NOT work if they didn't. The entire game would grind to a halt waiting for you to click a mouse button or press a key. That's why it's on it's own thread. The game would also stop completely while a sound plays, and then carry on when the sound stops playing. So it also gets its own thread. If the video output were also on the same thread, the game would grind to a halt every time the GPU has some big operation to do, instead of just dropping frames and keeping the game in sync. So it gets its own thread. Now what do you have left? The main loop. That loop is what kicks off all the other threads and keeps them coordinated whenever something in the game needs to happen. You click a button, and that input gets sent from the input thread to the main loop. The loop looks at what you clicked, and tells the other threads what to do, such as play a sound or show an animation. That's all SimCity is made up of, really. It just needs to play a sound or animation when you click on the right thing. That's suited just fine for a single loop, how else would you do it?

When you get into other genres where there's a hell of a lot more happening at the same time, that's where more threads come into play, but that is difficult, time consuming and with today's technology being so fast, not really worth it if it is certain it doesn't need it. Running the main loop in a single thread means the developers can get it done faster and patch it easier if something goes wrong. It also means they save cash and can push the game out faster. Remember that, too.

Now of course it's all a LOT more complicated than what I've explained, but they would not have decided on this if they had a good reason not to. It makes business sense to get something done faster and easier and cheaper if the technology can handle it. Then you get companies that are geeks and nerds (please don't take that the wrong way) and like pushing hardware to its limits. Clearly EA is not one of them.

Oh and just FYI, multithreading does not cause memory leaks. Single threaded applications can leak memory just as much as multithreaded ones can. When you use some memory in an application and never release it, the memory manager has to assign more elsewhere and if this is in a loop (think about what I said about the main loop above), you end up with a big memory leak.

Also if you think about this, it means low power laptops should be able to play the game well. Remember high end PCs are likely not all of their target market. It could also allow them to make a mobile version with a very similar if not the same code base as the full PC version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

There is no reason why SimCity shouldn't utilize multiple cores. The fact is, it's a simulation game, which means it is mostly made up of processing mathematics; that's what processors are designed for!
I'd like you to show me how you split a single, structured mathematical operation over multiple threads in code please.

The game is not exactly a "simulation". Yes there's a bunch of maths going on deciding who is happy, a bunch of scores and who gets hit by crime, but the game is mostly just playing sounds and displaying animations when you click a button.
Edited by biltong - 2/11/13 at 11:16am
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post #66 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobotheklown View Post

I would think there has to be a logical reason behind this, but...you know, it's EA we're talking about.

They apparently need 3-7 cores for rendering and audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biltong View Post

The game is not exactly a "simulation". Yes there's a bunch of maths going on deciding who is happy, a bunch of scores and who gets hit by crime, but the game is mostly just playing sounds and displaying animations when you click a button.

Actually, yes it is. EA are selling it as a strategy, simulation game.
    
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post #67 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobotheklown View Post

I would think there has to be a logical reason behind this, but...you know, it's EA we're talking about.

They apparently need 3-7 cores for rendering and audio.

Look at how many cores a GPU has. Rendering in itself needs LOADS of threads to do 2347298347239847 different things at once, but you only need one to kick off all the 289347289347 others. That one will be on the CPU and the rest get sent to the GPU.
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post #68 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by biltong View Post

Look at how many cores a GPU has. Rendering in itself needs LOADS of threads to do 2347298347239847 different things at once, but you only need one to kick off all the 289347289347 others. That one will be on the CPU and the rest get sent to the GPU.

I know, I'm just saying what Dan Moskowitz said.
Quote:
We do make use of extra CPU for audio/rendering

They would only need one thread for audio, one (CPU) thread for rendering. They could use the other two-six threads for simulating whatever needs to be simulated.
    
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post #69 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Apocalypse- View Post

Likely hurts AMD users a little. Barely effects Intel users. All the twitter post really says is it's not multi-threaded inside of the multi-threaded. Completely standard fare for the entire genre.

But wait, it's EA, so the OP must add non sequitur comments that others use to fuel a fire that no one stroking the fire really understands why it was started.

Gaming industry status quo: If it's normal, it's not news unless it's EA, then it's evil!

This.
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post #70 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magariz View Post

This is modern times and developers need to start pushing the hardware and not stay stuck in the stone ages of computing. Regardless of if it is EA or anyone else. The excuse, "Well everyone else is doing it" is pathetic at best. It is an excuse for failure and weakness. If everyone else is doing it then do better and make them look terrible. That incites competition and will in turn bring in more revenue. Crazy to think it is cliche to say, but look at what the original Crysis did. They pushed the modern hardware at the time to its limit and even beyond. Not every dev needs to do that but they should be striving to take advantage of what we had. Multi-core cpu's are pretty much the norm these days, at least dual cores.
Developers dont need to do anything other than please their investors and make their company money. They have no obligation to the customer beyond presenting a game they would spend their money on. If you dont like it, dont by it. You wont be able to tell them what to do until you affect their paycheck by either becoming their boss or by not buying games. And as for this game. It runs fine as it was programmed in beta. Wish the city size was bigger. But the CPU utilization in this game is nothing different than any other game. I don't see you running your mouth about that. But if there was no way for you to find out how many thereads this game used, you would care because the game runs fine. So all the people complaining about something that was poorly reported in the OP should get off your high horse and do something about it. Dont buy the game. Write them a letter explaining how multithreading would improve the game. Send them programming expamples since you've figured this out.

Oh and in regards to pushing the envolope of hardware in games. I dont see Simcity as the kind of genre to do that. EA certainly isn't marketing this game to people that would be looking to by top end hardware to run this game. I think this is a casual gamer kind of game, so you program it to run on most any machine in hopes of more sales. Plus what direct competition does Simcity have?
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