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[TT] Surface Pro not very repairable according to iFixit, achieves lowest score possible - Page 4

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

And if you don't want a new one and you don't like that technology is headed towards planned obsolescence (which is the way it really has been for a while with these kinds of devices), then obviously, that particular device doesn't meet your needs, and you should seek another option.

But no one is being forced to buy a $1,000 ultrabook/tablet hybrid (it's not a tablet and it's not a laptop - it's a hybrid/convergence device, and Microsoft is trying to blaze a trail with this concept) and then when they get it, complain that they can't upgrade or didn't know what they were getting. If you have certain needs and a desire to upgrade/access a device, then freaking buy a device that let's you do that. Why make big compromises against those beliefs if they're that important to you (or anyone else for that matter)?

I agree. Consumers now days dont use their power of NOT buying stuff in order to make their point to these companies. If no one bought it and it was obvious no one bought it because the components couldnt be upgraded...then they would change that. But because no one really cares about that, they produce what ever they want. Same goes for DRM, always online games, bad gas mileage vehicles, etc. Heck, Oreos could be stuffed with feces, but if people buy them regadless if they complain or not, why change it?
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post #32 of 66
Well, thought if it has USB, it is a pass - that's what they said for the new MBP, right?
Not surprised for the surface - as ppl mentioned, it is not like smartphones or tablets in general are user serviceable either.
Plus, have u seen how much money "certain stores/service departments" charge just to "crack" your laptop open in the US?
Should it be similar, labor alone covers 50-70% of the price of a Surface Pro (100% for RT or smaller tablets).

Do I like it? No - but that's what solid state gets you. Solid devices biggrin.gif
I don't know how much of an issue dusting off the cooling vents and even a failing fan would be tho...
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post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

I agree. Consumers now days dont use their power of NOT buying stuff in order to make their point to these companies. If no one bought it and it was obvious no one bought it because the components couldnt be upgraded...then they would change that. But because no one really cares about that, they produce what ever they want. Same goes for DRM, always online games, bad gas mileage vehicles, etc. Heck, Oreos could be stuffed with feces, but if people buy them regadless if they complain or not, why change it?

Most consumers don't even think about future upgrades or self-repairs.
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post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

I like how everyone purposely avoids the pervading (and popular) notion that technology must be increasingly powerful while at the same time, be ever increasingly thinner, lighter, etc.
This has nothing to do with "taking control" of a product, or being locked out, etc. I purchased my Surface Pro knowing EXACTLY what I was going to get - and you expect me to turnaround and complain because I can't possibly upgrade my $1,000 tablet/laptop hybrid, knowing full well that the guts of a full-fledged Ultrabook/laptop were shoved in a tablet form factor? Where are yours (or anyone else's) engineering schematics + design plans for shoving Ultrabook guts in the thinnest tablet form factor they possibly can, taking into account cooling and everything else, etc? And why aren't you working for Microsoft or Apple yet? rolleyes.gif

The retina MacBook Pros (and Apple devices in general) also scored a 1 and 2 respectively, like the Surface Pro did, by iFixIt....where was the outcry and subsequent OCN articles bashing the "repairability" or even accessibility of those devices?

Also, these products are like this because the manufacturer will just replace your product, which actually costs them less than it would to try and repair it.

iPhone/iPad/Surface Pro, etc., covered by warranty? Something wrong with it? Walk into the respective MS or Apple Store, and watch them ask no questions and just replace your darn device. At least, that's what I experienced. Microsoft even offers a 2-year warranty plan that covers spills and accidental damage, for $99.00.

Let's not pretend like the majority of people buying $500-1000 tablets and Ultrabooks/PCs are actually looking to take the things apart and repair it themselves. Upgrading? That's another story, and on certain devices only. Repairing? Who cares. Get your super expensive device replaced and be done with it - that's what the manufacturers want to do.

Also, OCN - stop the Microsoft hate.

I am not sure if you are trying to kiss Microsoft's cheeks, or Apple's cheeks with this....

Just because YOU knew the tablet was on lock down, doesn't mean it is OK for it to be on lock down. YOU are someone who is fine with not being able to service their own products, there are some of us that aren't. What makes your thoughts on the matter more valid?

Look, I have been tearing apart hardware longer than a lot of people on this forum have been alive. You remind me of someone who will just run out and buy a new TV because theirs died, instead of looking inside to see what went wrong. In a lot of cases of new flat panels it is simply a capacitor that popped, and it will take an hour to fix, 45 minutes of that time is taking apart the TV and putting it back together. Heck, a good friend of mine owns an electronics recycling center, he had a lady walk in with a two week old Toshiba laptop, retail of about $1300. Her husband had dumped a soda on it, so it "must be broken as the keys are sticky!". Guess what? An hour or two later, perfectly fine laptop! It is still up and going.

Now lets look at the Surface. Why glue on the screen like that? To prevent people from servicing it! If you know where to look you can find replacement screens for that device, they are about $150. Guess what? Microsoft wants you to buy a whole new device should you damage the screen some how. The SSD fail in it? Nope, you aren't supposed to replace that yourself, you need to buy a new one or pay Microsoft a huge fee to do it.

What it all boils down to in the end is that Microsoft and all the others want to pigeon hole their customers into either paying them a large sum of money to repair a product, generally more than a full replacement cost, or to get them to buy a whole new unit. This is a text book example of unserviceable devices following a structured planned obsolescence. It is a strategy that has been followed for decades, and they are only getting better at.

But, then again, I am one of the guys that complains about new car motors and how you really can't work on those like you could an old 350 small block, etc, etc.

EDIT: For clarity, I don't own a single Apple product, in large part due to their price gouging and things like soldering RAM to the system. I own two Microsoft products, Windows OS and Office.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 2/15/13 at 10:35am
    
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post #35 of 66
I was seriously considering buying a Surface Pro, until I started reading about how they are assembled and what an enormous pain in the ass they are to open up.

I doubt it will matter much to most people, but it's a complete turn off to me and anyone with the inclination to save a few bucks by using their own SSD or sourcing their own battery replacements. It's also pretty annoying that all the RAM is soldered to the board.
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post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I am not sure if you are trying to kiss Microsoft's cheeks, or Apple's cheeks with this....

Just because YOU knew the tablet was on lock down, doesn't mean it is OK for it to be on lock down. YOU are someone who is fine with not being able to service their own products, there are some of us that aren't. What makes your thoughts on the matter more valid?

Look, I have been tearing apart hardware longer than a lot of people on this forum have been alive. You remind me of someone who will just run out and buy a new TV because theirs died, instead of looking inside to see what went wrong. In a lot of cases of new flat panels it is simply a capacitor that popped, and it will take an hour to fix, 45 minutes of that time is taking apart the TV and putting it back together. Heck, a good friend of mine owns an electronics recycling center, he had a lady walk in with a two week old Toshiba laptop, retail of about $1300. Her husband had dumped a soda on it, so it "must be broken as the keys are sticky!". Guess what? An hour or two later, perfectly fine laptop! It is still up and going.

Now lets look at the Surface. Why glue on the screen like that? To prevent people from servicing it! If you know where to look you can find replacement screens for that device, they are about $150. Guess what? Microsoft wants you to buy a whole new device should you damage the screen some how. The SSD fail in it? Nope, you aren't supposed to replace that yourself, you need to buy a new one or pay Microsoft a huge fee to do it.

What it all boils down to in the end is that Microsoft and all the others want to pigeon hole their customers into either paying them a large sum of money to repair a product, generally more than a full replacement cost, or to get them to buy a whole new unit. This is a text book example of unserviceable devices following a structured planned obsolescence. It is a strategy that has been followed for decades, and they are only getting better at.

But, then again, I am one of the guys that complains about new car motors and how you really can't work on those like you could an old 350 small block, etc, etc.

EDIT: For clarity, I don't own a single Apple product, in large part due to their price gouging and things like soldering RAM to the system. I own two Microsoft products, Windows OS and Office.

So, sooooooooooooo many assumptions in your post that it's not even funny.

I'm still waiting on engineering and design schematics from anyone that can fit the guts of an Ultrabook into a tablet form factor in the way that the Surface Pro is built while giving the consumer a wet dream in the form of 100% ease of access and repairability. But since no one is going to provide that....

Desire to tinker and repair one's own device =/= failure on the manufacturer for not providing such an "experience."

My inclination when dropping a grand on a piece of electronics is that I, personally, don't WANT to have to do that, and I SHOULDN'T have to do that. If my product breaks and it's under warranty and it's coverable damage, I fully expect it to be replaced. I don't want to have to service an expensive product. $150.00 for a replacement screen? How about you spend $99 ONE TIME and get full accidental damage protection, and if you drop your device and break it, throw it in a pool, poop on it, whatever - they'll replace your hardware. As many times as you break it. Is that really HARDER than buying each individual part that you might break, and break multiple times at that? Repairing electronics is HARDLY cost effective on premium devices - and this is a premium device.

Why are manufacturers not letting people repair their products? Because it costs more money to repair than replace, and costs money when consumers who don't know what they're doing (which is probably more likely to happen than those who DO know what they're doing), break something else in the process, resulting in voided warranties, or the manufacturer unable to prove the original point of failure/damage and will thus have to pay more for something that may not have been their fault.

Again: buy an expensive piece of hardware, get it replaced or covered. It is cheaper in the long run than repairing. You think if my GTX 690 breaks, i'm going to open it up, at a $1,000 price premium, to see if i can replace a capacitor? No. I'm throwing the thing back at EVGA and telling them to send me a new one. Could I replace a capacitor? Sure. But there's no need to.

And also, the whole argument of, "i'd like to upgrade this, but since I can't, the product is terrible" is not even an argument. If people want something that is upgradeable and accessible, go buy something that fits those needs. Quit complaining about a product that doesn't have those needs. Vote with your wallet like Blameless did - he wants upgradeable storage and RAM in his device and the Surface Pro doesn't provide it? Don't buy it. It's not rocket science. For me, I don't care about upgrading my SSD or RAM, and the Surface Pro fits my needs perfectly...so, I bought it. And I couldn't be happier.
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post #37 of 66
It's still serviceable, just a pain to get it open. If you need access to it repeadily you could remove the glue and use velcro with holes where the screws are.
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post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

So, sooooooooooooo many assumptions in your post that it's not even funny.

I'm still waiting on engineering and design schematics from anyone that can fit the guts of an Ultrabook into a tablet form factor in the way that the Surface Pro is built while giving the consumer a wet dream in the form of 100% ease of access and repairability. But since no one is going to provide that....

Desire to tinker and repair one's own device =/= failure on the manufacturer for not providing such an "experience."

My inclination when dropping a grand on a piece of electronics is that I, personally, don't WANT to have to do that, and I SHOULDN'T have to do that. If my product breaks and it's under warranty and it's coverable damage, I fully expect it to be replaced. I don't want to have to service an expensive product. $150.00 for a replacement screen? How about you spend $99 ONE TIME and get full accidental damage protection, and if you drop your device and break it, throw it in a pool, poop on it, whatever - they'll replace your hardware. As many times as you break it. Is that really HARDER than buying each individual part that you might break, and break multiple times at that? Repairing electronics is HARDLY cost effective on premium devices - and this is a premium device.

Why are manufacturers not letting people repair their products? Because it costs more money to repair than replace, and costs money when consumers who don't know what they're doing (which is probably more likely to happen than those who DO know what they're doing), break something else in the process, resulting in voided warranties, or the manufacturer unable to prove the original point of failure/damage and will thus have to pay more for something that may not have been their fault.

Again: buy an expensive piece of hardware, get it replaced or covered. It is cheaper in the long run than repairing. You think if my GTX 690 breaks, i'm going to open it up, at a $1,000 price premium, to see if i can replace a capacitor? No. I'm throwing the thing back at EVGA and telling them to send me a new one. Could I replace a capacitor? Sure. But there's no need to.

And also, the whole argument of, "i'd like to upgrade this, but since I can't, the product is terrible" is not even an argument. If people want something that is upgradeable and accessible, go buy something that fits those needs. Quit complaining about a product that doesn't have those needs. Vote with your wallet like Blameless did - he wants upgradeable storage and RAM in his device and the Surface Pro doesn't provide it? Don't buy it. It's not rocket science. For me, I don't care about upgrading my SSD or RAM, and the Surface Pro fits my needs perfectly...so, I bought it. And I couldn't be happier.

Please find me a replacement plan that is worth the trouble. As for schematics, why should anyone bother? Anyone with half a brain cell can devise more serviceable methods of assembly than using industrial adhesive on electronics.
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post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Please find me a replacement plan that is worth the trouble. As for schematics, why should anyone bother? Anyone with half a brain cell can devise more serviceable methods of assembly than using industrial adhesive on electronics.

Again, assumptions. Can you say without a shadow of a doubt that the adhesive absolutely, positively, isn't critical to this device, which you did not design nor manufacture? Have you ever worked with anyone managing supply chains or manufacturing of hardware? Cause it certainly doesn't sound like it.

And a replacement plan "worth the trouble?" Like, going online, typing in your serial number for your product, and attaching a two-year $99.00 service plan that covers any and all hardware failure, manufacturing or accident related failures? Yeah, that one. $50.00 a year to have full replacement warranty on a premium device, even if you slam the device against a wall in frustration or take it for a swim. That is MORE THAN REASONABLE. I will gladly pay $4.00 a month to have Microsoft replace my device in the event that I do something stupid to it or if it has a material defect.

And please, none of that, "I can afford a $1,000 tablet and a couple hundred more in accessories, but won't shell out an extra $50-100 bucks to cover said device" bs. It would be dumb NOT to pay for such an option, and even dumber instead to drop the thing, break the screen, and then go out of your way to purchase a replacement screen, and then take the time to repair it, break something else, buy a replacement for that, take the time to repair it, etc. Buy the coverage, get it replaced. Or maybe that's just "not worth the trouble."
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post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I was seriously considering buying a Surface Pro, until I started reading about how they are assembled and what an enormous pain in the ass they are to open up.

I doubt it will matter much to most people, but it's a complete turn off to me and anyone with the inclination to save a few bucks by using their own SSD or sourcing their own battery replacements. It's also pretty annoying that all the RAM is soldered to the board.

Compared to the plethora of other tablets that are a pleasure to open and don't have soldered components?
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Overclock.net › Forums › Mobile Computing Forum › Tablets › [TT] Surface Pro not very repairable according to iFixit, achieves lowest score possible