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AMD A10 5800K: Is it really that good? - Page 14

post #131 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveLT View Post

I know. I can find LGA1366 boards for ~100$ ... from china biggrin.gif But even a used i7-920 is not cheap ...

10 second search on ebay yielded w3520 for 115 and a 920 for 125 and I believe both had free shipping...

Heck they can even be found on the forums as well, and usually are sold at a discount for buying cpu and mobo together. Not only that but if you actively fold many sellers will offer folding discounts on top of a bundle discount. You just got to look for them. AMD also has a good part in folding as well but usually only for the 2p/4p builds because of the price/watt/performance/points ratios in folding 24/7, as we all know 6+ core xeons are are a pretty penny lol
    
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post #132 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

DaveLT provided an Intel based build with similar CPU power as an A10-5800K, and you say he's overpricing things?

I'm sorry but... What's exactly overpriced, besides Intel's pricing decisions?

Sorry, overpricing was a poor choice of words. I should have said "overspecing".
No need 8GB ram for a budget core i3 build, especially not to play L4D2.
4GB system ram is enough to play almost every PC game which currently exists.
His chosen intel motherboard could possibly could be a tiny bit cheaper.

The AMD build is underspeced by pairing a 100W TDP apu with a 3+1 phase, heatsink-less board.
I agree with his ram choice for the AMD build. 4GB is not quite enough. need some extra ram for the apu. don't know if 2133 MHz will actually be reach-able, but if not, timings can instead be tightened.

The reason I listed some used graphics cards is because the L4D2 benchmark shows apu's versus older gpu's.
Edited by Partol - 2/20/13 at 10:48am
     
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post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

10 second search on ebay yielded w3520 for 115 and a 920 for 125 and I believe both had free shipping...

Heck they can even be found on the forums as well, and usually are sold at a discount for buying cpu and mobo together. Not only that but if you actively fold many sellers will offer folding discounts on top of a bundle discount. You just got to look for them. AMD also has a good part in folding as well but usually only for the 2p/4p builds because of the price/watt/performance/points ratios in folding 24/7, as we all know 6+ core xeons are are a pretty penny lol
I found Sabertooth X58s for 100$ but i don't think they will support a E5530 i saw for $100
So i'm torn between EX58-UD5 and EX58-DS4 ... Neither have SATA3

(I am not a folder for a reason ... i don't expect my current rig to fold even half decently, My Q9400 when it died was when i discovered folding tongue.gif that was in 2011)
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post #134 of 144
sata3 is overhyped and not needed for gaming anyways, as the intel controllers have better 4k read and writes. Now if you were using your SSD for business purposes then this would be a different conversation.

Folding is famous for exposing unstable systems, so it was very likely that your system was unstable to begin with but didnt use a program to show that.
    
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post #135 of 144
Well it ran Prime95 stable for a whole week OC'd to 3.3GHz so yeah biggrin.gif
What actually happened was numerous cooler swaps later it crapped out, it ran for 3-4 years anyway tongue.gif
Related to my purchase i found that L5520s(~80$) are much more common and cheaper ... biggrin.gif I am going to get a X5550(~100$) and see how far i can OC it (60W really isn't a lot at all) or hit the BCLK wall first and get a E5540 as well. (In the future of course, the only reason i want that one is that it's got a much higher multiplier)
Edited by DaveLT - 2/20/13 at 12:08pm
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post #136 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partol View Post

Sorry, overpricing was a poor choice of words. I should have said "overspecing".
No need 8GB ram for a budget core i3 build, especially not to play L4D2.
4GB system ram is enough to play almost every PC game which currently exists.

Why bother with 4GBs? You can get 8 for 10-20€ more. My main rig runs on 4GBs and it's on the verge of a breakthrough. I'll admit I'm rather demanding with it though.
   
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post #137 of 144
newegg has a $15 discount for the a10 5800k right now if anyone is interested.
I suppose this could be because of richland dropping in march.
Edited by spatulator - 2/21/13 at 10:09am
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post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by spatulator View Post

newegg has a $15 discount for the a10 5800k right now if anyone is interested.
I suppose this could be because of richland dropping in march.
That may be the case,but Newegg had a $15 off promo on the 5800K about 2-3 weeks ago.
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post #139 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partol View Post

no vrm heatsink is, in my opinion, a big mistake, for a 100W TDP apu.
For core i3 with graphics card, no VRM heatsink is not a problem.
I've never heard of a motherboard VRM burn out from a non-overclocked core i3 with separate graphics card.
But there are plenty of cases of amd boards which burn out.
It's not fair, but AMD buyers should generally avoid cheap, heatsink-less motherboards.

A great point in all this I think that was overlooked.

You can overclock an AMD quad cpu, but in order for it to handle an overclock that is stable enough longterm to show its full value over the i3 your going to need an 85-100 dollar board with good caps. xd_1771 has spent a good amount of time and energy trying to drive this point home to people and even he runs an AMD solution.

Also the reason AMD has lost alot of customers is their chipsets need SERIOUS,SERIOUS updating. The 990fx is basically a modified 790fx(which was a flagship Phenom 1 chipset from 2007). The 950 SB is considered old in todays world compared to a even an X58 or P55 1156 board as the SSD performance,etc. is lacking vs even the older Intel solution. AMD doesnt even have a native SATA3/USB3 chipset for AM3+. It uses an add in controller like Eton,etc.

The link they used with Trinity is a better PCIe based bus instead of a HT one but it still isn't as good as it should be.

AMD cut R@D on their chipsets in 2010 so they have more money for the Fusion project and its haunting them to this very day. The compatibility factor is what they chose longterm as well as the low cost to keep resuing old tech in a different package and its put them in a position where it makes all their flagship processors perform worse than they really should. They rode Phenom II's success to long and its now hurting them very badly in the high end.

You put a FX 8350 with a QPI link and you will see Intel owners get scared real quick. The FX never got a proper chipset to compete with Intel the way it should have. If I am buying a Vishera I want a chipset that is better than the 990fx they have right now. The problem is that there isn't one. Who wants to spend $200 on an AMD motherboard that uses a chipset that basically is the same one I bought on a $200 AMD motherboard in 2009.

According to the data sheet i found on Hypertransport the scalability is limited to 32 nodes with HT

this seems to have been addressed in in Intel's QPI sheet which says instead of using slower higher latency DRAM to address these functions(which Hypertranport uses), low latency cache is used instead, which might explain why Intel now has a large Level 3 cache when they never used it in the pre Nehalem.

Intel must be using its smaller level 2 to address direct memory communication with the CPU while the L3 is doing other I/O functions, since I/O functions need more than say 256kb which is fine on a properly optimized processor to handle that direct communication with the memory but not the rest of the system.

So it looks like AMD has all this level 3 cache that basically goes to waste as HT is using system memory to handle these functions, and which might also explain why the Athlon II X4 which has no level 3 isnt much slower than a Phenom II.

So if AMD had its own version of QPI it could use it's L3 to actually improve performance and scalability since its lower latency(even though higher than Level 1 or 2 is still much faster than using system memory to handle this. When crossfire comes into play you can almost guarantee low latency communication matters alot.
Edited by dlee7283 - 2/22/13 at 5:38am
    
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post #140 of 144
FM2 utilizes pcie links instead of hypertransport. Interesting breakdown though dlee...do you know if pcie solves the latency issue you are referring to? I would hope so since fm2 seems to be AMDs platform to build on for the next couple years. I always thought the biggest advantage intel has over amd was with the memory controller being much more effecient, (among other things like a wider decode/fetch register which will be fixed with steamroller) and I never considered the qpi bus to be a big factor.
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