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[TE] AMD denies graphics card rumours: We will have cards out this year - Page 6

post #51 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post



1) GK104 doesn't have compute features, so it can't be used for an accurate comparison when GK110 and AMD's high-end chips do.
Thats a disadvantage for GCN. The compute units in GK110 is obviously disabled for the consumer card. That is already baked in the GCN and its design hence why Nvidia can`t just miraculous make a GK104 an awesome GPGPU performer through software.
Quote:
2) NVIDIA and AMD calculate their TDPs differently; do you honestly think that the 7970 produces as much heat and uses as much power as the GTX 480, which also had a 250W TDP?
Look at GTX 580 instead. TDP of 244W and runs 4C cooler than 7970. Heat will only increase from 7970 with a 650mm^2 die. A LOT.
http://www.guru3d.com/miraserver/images/2011/r7900/Untitled-3.png
TDP for both is still something Nvidia/AMD must take seriously since its a max requirement. Rarely hit but the coolers must accommodate that number
Quote:
3) NVIDIA and AMD's respective reference coolers perform differently and have fans spinning at different speeds.

What a silly excuse. I already posted the reference cooler above. 7970 runs @ 78C under load. It 1dB higher than reference cooler from Nvidia (GTX 580).
http://www.guru3d.com/miraserver/images/2011/r7900/Untitled-5.png

AMD could increase the fanspeed to cool off a hotter GPU, but a 650mm^2 die? Not a chance in hell they will be able to pull that off.
Quote:
Your comparison is completely invalid.
Nope, they are 100% valid and real

I don`t see AMD have a chance at building a Titan contender. Unless they get good architectural gains with GCN 2.0
Edited by Cloudfire777 - 2/14/13 at 2:31pm
post #52 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge Of Pain View Post

... So far AMD has said the 7000 series is its main focus. No one from AMD has openly said "no cards this year". Right?

There was an AMD representative stated that AMD never officially mentioned the 8000's schedule, and that you can't delay an unannounced or unscheduled product.
post #53 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudfire777 View Post

Thats a disadvantage for GCN....

In your comparison it's a disadvantage for NVIDIA due to the large amount of space on the die that these features require. If GK104 had the same compute capabilities as Tahiti the die would almost certainly be similarly sized to larger. GK104's FP64 performance is 1/24 that of FP32; Tahiti's is FP64 is 1/4 that of FP32.
Quote:
Look at GTX 580 instead. TDP of 244W and runs 4C cooler than 7970. Heat will only increase from 7970 with a 650mm^2 die. A LOT.
http://www.guru3d.com/miraserver/images/2011/r7900/Untitled-3.png

Different coolers. Also, my chart disagrees with yours and shows the 7970 having a huge advantage:


Quote:
What a silly excuse. I already posted the reference cooler above. 7970 runs @ 78C under load. It 1dB higher than reference cooler from Nvidia (GTX 580).
http://www.guru3d.com/miraserver/images/2011/r7900/Untitled-5.png

AMD could increase the fanspeed to cool off a hotter GPU, but a 650mm^2 die? Not a chance in hell they will be able to pull that off.

I'm fairly certain NVIDIA's reference heatsinks are beefier, but whatever. I have yet another graph that disagrees with yours.



My argument is not that they can cool, let alone produce, a 650mm^2 die. My argument is that they wouldn't need such a large die to compete.
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post #54 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Your comparison is completely invalid.

1) GK104 doesn't have compute features, so it can't be used for an accurate comparison when GK110 and AMD's high-end chips do.
2) NVIDIA and AMD calculate their TDPs differently; do you honestly think that the 7970 produces as much heat and uses as much power as the GTX 480, which also had a 250W TDP?
3) NVIDIA and AMD's respective reference coolers perform differently and have fans spinning at different speeds.
I didn't want to make this thread about your rig, but Dominator RAM is ridiculously expensive for those who aren't looking to put it under LN2 or whatever, I highly doubt you are using any of the features that would make your motherboard worth anywhere near what it costs, you bought a rubber dome keyboard that costs somewhere in the realm of $70, and you are powering a 3930k and 690 with a 1200W PSU.

I'd really hope your computer destroys mine. Your CPU, motherboard, and graphics all cost well above three times as much as mine.

NVIDIA isn't supposed to have a 780 coming out anytime soon so I don't understand your complaint about the 8970 not being here yet... unless you think that anyone who would be considering a 780 or 8970 is actually going to go out and spend double the cash on a Titan, which also isn't out yet.

What is wrong with leaving room for improvement? Didn't wan't to limit myself on being able to go with (2) 690's or another sli config (Titan's) later down the road. I thought everything came out nicely myself and couldn't be happier. Maybe I didn't do enough research on all my components. Maybe the ram and MB are overkill. I just saw something that was expensive and went with it. I liked how clean and tidy the H100 was. Not a bunch of neon tubes everywhere. The case got a decent review and has plenty of room for upgrades.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AZZA/Hurrican_2000/6.html
0/6.html

..
 
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post #55 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post

What is wrong with leaving room for improvement? Didn't wan't to limit myself on being able to go with (2) 690's or another sli config (Titan's) later down the road. I thought everything came out nicely myself and couldn't be happier. Maybe I didn't do enough research on all my components. Maybe the ram and MB are overkill. I just saw something that was expensive and went with it. I liked how clean and tidy the H100 was. Not a bunch of neon tubes everywhere. The case got a decent review and has plenty of room for upgrades.

You could pull off 2-card SLI with a $200 X79 board and can't pull off 3-way with your board unless you 1) don't need any of the headers at the bottom of your board or 2) are going to water cool.

I don't particularly care for your rig, though, and didn't want to drive the thread so far off topic. Your inability to respond to my on-topic argument only validates my belief in what I said.
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post #56 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Different coolers. Also, my chart disagrees with yours and shows the 7970 having a huge advantage:


I'm fairly certain NVIDIA's reference heatsinks are beefier,

Seriously, why do you think they got different results? Ambient temperatures maybe... rolleyes.gif

Anyway, you are helping me prove my point. Lets use your example: 79C for 7970 on stock coolers.
AMD make a Titan competitor: 70% bigger die to match it.

Temperatures will SKYROOF with a normal stock cooler. Power consumption will be accommodable but pretty big.

I don`t see that happening. At all. Which is why AMD have gone out earlier and said that their 7000 series will do just fine for now. Its a limit for both architectures. AMD is a lot closer than Nvidia regarding that.

Just wait and you`ll see.
Edited by Cloudfire777 - 2/14/13 at 2:44pm
post #57 of 161
AMD can make a cooler that can take the heat output: http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/firepro-remote-graphics/S10000/Pages/S10000.aspx#3

The temps aren't the problem if AMD or NV actually want to tackle them
 
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post #58 of 161
Looking at NewEgg and how the GTX 690's are over $1000 and more than just a few people own one, few people own two... I dont see how the GTX Titan would not dominate the High-End Market if it comes out around $900. Going through this thread alone looking at peoples signature rigs, a lot more people seem to have $1000+ in video cards alone. It all depends on how well they actually perform, when the benchmarks come out I guess we will see.
    
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post #59 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

AMD can make a cooler that can take the heat output: http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/firepro-remote-graphics/S10000/Pages/S10000.aspx#3

The temps aren't the problem if AMD or NV actually want to tackle them

Thats a dual GPU. Basically two heatspots spread out with 3 fans cooling it.
Of course that is no problem, which is why 7990 and 690 exist. There is even requirements on how to build those to make the cooling efficient enough: Space between the dies is one of them

You take that TDP on the S10000, and make a single GPU with only one huge heatspot. Thats a totally different scenario and thats AMD TitanSlayer for you tongue.gif
Edited by Cloudfire777 - 2/14/13 at 2:52pm
post #60 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlademaster01 View Post

Since all the cool guys use the word "compute" without specifications. 680 does compute over 400% vs 7970 sometimes rolleyes.gif

Maybe I was exaggerating somehow. but in some OpenCL apps it can be even more than 100%.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition-review-benchmark,3232-14.html
But you, do you have a thing to back up your claim that the GTX 680 is 400% better?
Edited by HeadlessKnight - 2/14/13 at 3:04pm
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-4720HQ @ 2.60 GHz Asus G751JY Asus GTX 980M 4GB SK hynix HMT41GS6BFR8A-PB 16GB (2x8) DDR3L-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOS
SanDisk SD7SB3Q128G1002  HGST Travelstar 7K1000 1TB HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GUC0N Windows 10 Home 64-bit 
MonitorAudio
LG Philips LP173WF4-SPD1 + G-SYNC @ 75 Hz Realtek ALC668 
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