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[Wired] Beautiful Supernova Remnant May Contain Galaxy’s Youngest Black Hole - Page 3

post #21 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post


E = MC^2 my friend. It is not easy, but the mass transformed into some forms of radiation which does escape.

so blackholes suck things in and turn them into radiation then spit them out??? is this true? so blackholes dont go anywhere then if this is true. there goes multiverse theories etc... smile.gif

edit ok just spent an hour or so reading theory of relativity e=mc^2 it makes alot more sense now.
Edited by Jimbags - 2/19/13 at 12:08am
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post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbags View Post



so blackholes suck things in and turn them into radiation then spit them out??? is this true? so blackholes dont go anywhere then if this is true. there goes multiverse theories etc... smile.gif

edit ok just spent an hour or so reading theory of relativity e=mc^2 it makes alot more sense now.

Actually (best guess at the moment!) it's a bit of both - not all the mass absorbed is converted to radiation, most is retained. Bear in mind that the definition of the event horizon of a black hole is the point at which light (which is radiation in the form of photons) cannot escape. Hawking radiation (as it is called) from black holes specifically describes the splitting of virtual particle pairs (like a positron-electron pair), where one falls in but one doesn't. In theory, it shouldn't happen that much, but don't forget that the physics around a black hole are extreme, and very poorly understood (due to the quantum mechanics vs. general relativity argument, from a gravity perspective)

In terms of the "where the mass goes", as far as we know, it doesn't go anywhere, it is retained by the black hole, which just grows in mass. Of course, it could covert this to some kind of energy (kinetic?), there could be some kind of exotic physics which allows violation of the Pauli exclusion principle (such as new particles waaaay outside the Standard Model), or it could indeed spit the mass out into other dimensions (which could include other universes in the multiverse). Problem with that though, is that we don't see any equivalent in our universe - there are no white holes.

Personally, I think that the singularity at the centre of a black hole, spacetime becomes so compactified that time ceases to exist, so the particles that eventually meet it are then "frozen in time" on the outside of it. That said, I also think that gravity is actually the "base field" that the universe is based on, and that spacetime interacts with that (kinda like a noticeboard, where gravity is the noticeboard, and spacetime is the covering or posters on it - hard to explain!))
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post #23 of 43
i see what your saying truth is we just dont know enough, although we are getting alot closer lately we are just restrain because we cant carry out certain experiments to prove or disprove thwories. exciting times ahead. if only we invested more in science hey? i agree with you alot btw smile.gif
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post #24 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post


E = MC^2 my friend. It is not easy, but the mass transformed into some forms of radiation which does escape.

E=MC2 is entirely irrelevant as white holes have been theorised and black holes emit radiation. That entire formula, according to many scientists, is irrelevant as even light is a particle and so are radio waves.
Edited by Liranan - 2/19/13 at 6:43am
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post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

E=MC2 is entirely irrelevant as white holes have been theorised and black holes emit radiation. That entire formula, according to many scientists, is irrelevant as even light is a particle and so are radio waves.

Not all radiation is. But then again, I've been out of the physics game for almost 10 years, so my knowledge could very well be obsolete.
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post #26 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Not all radiation is. But then again, I've been out of the physics game for almost 10 years, so my knowledge could very well be obsolete.

It's not just the past 10 years, from the start Einstein's E=MC2 theory was disregarded by many, not in the least because Einstein didn't understand quantum physics (reasons are unimportant right now). However he has been proven wrong many time over and the formula no longer holds any real value as it isn't even applicable to fission or fusion.

I'm no physics major thus I could very well be wrong. If I am may a physics major enlighten me.
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post #27 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

It's not just the past 10 years, from the start Einstein's E=MC2 theory was disregarded by many, not in the least because Einstein didn't understand quantum physics (reasons are unimportant right now). However he has been proven wrong many time over and the formula no longer holds any real value as it isn't even applicable to fission or fusion.

I'm no physics major thus I could very well be wrong. If I am may a physics major enlighten me.

E=mc^2 is still valid for closed systems.
    
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post #28 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

It's not just the past 10 years, from the start Einstein's E=MC2 theory was disregarded by many, not in the least because Einstein didn't understand quantum physics (reasons are unimportant right now). However he has been proven wrong many time over and the formula no longer holds any real value as it isn't even applicable to fission or fusion.

I'm no physics major thus I could very well be wrong. If I am may a physics major enlighten me.

Fission and fusion no mass is lost. You're talking about the release of neutrons from a nucleus, not the destruction of neutrons. Einstein spent the second half of his life trying to prove Quantum Physics wrong, its not that he didn't understand it, he didn't believe it. He wasn't entirely on the wrong track either. There are many situations where quantum mechanics fails, and other paradigms are necessary. The real takeaway is all of the math is really just approximations anyway, their accuracy in explaining phenomena is dependent on scope.

Regardless of E=MC^2 being the exact accurate equation or not, explaining that the mass of the black hole can create radiation in the form of pure energy, that is massless energy, and it being massless is important because the only way to escape the event horizon is to have no mass.
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post #29 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Fission and fusion no mass is lost. You're talking about the release of neutrons from a nucleus, not the destruction of neutrons. Einstein spent the second half of his life trying to prove Quantum Physics wrong, its not that he didn't understand it, he didn't believe it. He wasn't entirely on the wrong track either. There are many situations where quantum mechanics fails, and other paradigms are necessary. The real takeaway is all of the math is really just approximations anyway, their accuracy in explaining phenomena is dependent on scope.

Regardless of E=MC^2 being the exact accurate equation or not, explaining that the mass of the black hole can create radiation in the form of pure energy, that is massless energy, and it being massless is important because the only way to escape the event horizon is to have no mass.

Um, not really...
Energy does not just 'escape' a black hole because it is mass-less, light for example is mass-less and can not 'escape' a black hole the way you seem to be describing it.
Hawking Radiation also does not only take the form of mass-less energy, but also that of massive particles.
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post #30 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by [PWN]Schubie View Post

Um, not really...
Energy does not just 'escape' a black hole because it is mass-less, light for example is mass-less and can not 'escape' a black hole the way you seem to be describing it.
Hawking Radiation also does not only take the form of mass-less energy, but also that of massive particles.

Too many years, if I'm wrong from cobwebs I don't want to spread any false info. But last I knew light was not in fact mass-less, it had a measured mass, and that was why gravity was exerted on light.
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