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post #1791 of 13339
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

50 %?Where did you see that?

Also you dont understnad something.If nvidia sell their top gpu 1k $ then amd will just release a 8970 with 90% of the performance for 700. Then who lose? We lose.

Also titan released after 1 year. Yes its in the same nm but its a gk110 a massive chip. After 1 year for 20-30 % more performance for more than double the price.

Dont get me wrong its a great card(it looks fantastic with the stock cooler) but the price is a big facepalm.If nvidia can double the price of their big chip like that (gf110->gk110) i dont want to see the price of maxwell gm110

You're right, I was off on the numbers. But I think giving it some time (and water cooling blocks), people will have it running at 33-50% faster than a 7970. And I understand the cost/benefit ratio analysis. But a company choosing to charge more doesn't take away from the fact that they put out a product that is selling out all over the place, that does give better performance.

The price does go up and down. I bought the GTX 680 when it came out for $500. But I had purchased 6800 Ultra back in the day for like $650. The GTX Titan isn't intended to be a standard card for them. That's why they didn't release it as a GTX model. The 780 will likely have close to the same performance as the Titan, and will probably end up at the $599 mark. Pulling those numbers out of my butt at the moment. No inside information here. tongue.gif
Edited by HyperMatrix - 3/1/13 at 11:47am
post #1792 of 13339
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

Speculation! (Click to show)
Well, speaking to my own issues with your post, it's just that it came off a bit fanboyishly. I didn't write anything because I expect fanboyishness. Even from myself when defending my reasoning for purchasing the GTX Titan's. I have no problem with AMD cards. For single card setups I always recommend the 7970 over the GTX 680. Though I went with Quad-SLI GTX 680's prior to the Titan's because I can't stand the microstutter of AMD cards in Crossfire. Before my GTX 680's, I had a 6970. Before that, a GTX 590. And before that, and AMD 4870. So...I go with whatever is good at the time, for myself.

Now...the only issue I took with your comment about the GTX Titan vs 7970 is that it doesn't take into account the reason for the pricing. And that it's not that Nvidia had to make a card that cost so much in order to be able to compete. This would be the same as me coming and posting "Haha...look at what the 680 can do with a 294mm die, 2gb vram, and 256bit bus. Your stupid AMD card needed a 20% bigger die, 50% wider bus, and 50% more vram to be able to be better. And way to suck with microstutter!!" My statement would be entirely factual. But it also chooses to focus on the aspects that are helpful to further my own view/position. In my example, I refuse to ignore that while the 7970 does need all those additional features to beat the 680, it is still a faster card in most applications and that a single 7970 is more than enough for a 1080p display so Microstutter is rarely an issue

With your comparison to the GTX Titan again, it comes down to the same reason Nvidia initially launched the GTX 680. When it came out, the card was superior to the 7970 in a lot of benchmarks. It wasn't until some major driver improvements from AMD before we saw the 7970 become such a great card. Nvidia wasn't "technologically held back" by any means. The original 680 was originally intended to be the 670. But because it performed (at the time) so well against the 7970, Nvidia decided to capitalize on that and make a lot of money by selling it as the flagship card. The same situation with the GTX Titan now. It is important to note that this is more than just a gaming card. But it's also about maximizing profits for them. They're using a a die size only 6% larger than they had on their GTX 580 card. But because of the performance it gives, and because AMD is not going to launch a new card this year, they found yet another way to capitalize $$.

Now...the other part of my problem. Look at this statement: "Intel is so bad. It only took a $1100 CPU (3970x) to beat Intel's $330 CPU (3770k)." Sounds silly...I know...but I'm going somewhere with this. Now...let's pretend gaming was more advanced and actually used all the cores in a processor efficiently. That chip would only be 35-50% faster than the 3770k. Yet...the price is $750 more. And it's the exact same company. So what we see is that it's a business decision. And because people are always willing to pay a higher premium for "The Best" of anything. Astronomically more than the Performance Per $ is worth. Because that's not the most important factor for everybody. So the GTX Titan is providing that roughly 50% improvement in performance over the 7970. Which is a massive improvement. Especially for people who want to stay away from SLI/Crossfire. And it's charging that premium price for it. Just as intel does with its range of cpu's.

Just keep all that in mind. And keep up the great work with the thread
.

Quote:
"Intel is so bad. It only took a $1100 CPU (3970x) to beat Intel's $330 CPU (3770k)."

Where did I say Nvidia is so bad? Don't start changing what I said.



THIS IS MY QUOTE
Quote:
Nvidia needs a 1000$ GPU to surpass the 350$ GPU from AMD

Is that quote TRUE about what is happenning?

Yes it is, then stop saying its fanboyism, its the DAMM reality. End of story. I post Graphs all over OCN proving that Titan is a beast, what do you want more, that I start lying about the price?


I'll post again the proof
PROOF (Click to show)
Average rank Per Brand with Titan.

With Titan (Click to show)






Look what happen if I remove the Titan from the chart

Without the Titan! (Click to show)

Edited by KaRLiToS - 3/1/13 at 11:51am
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post #1793 of 13339
well atlease I beat the TITAN with my $400 cards. David"s" vs Goliath.....


Edited by HmoobYaj87 - 3/1/13 at 11:51am
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post #1794 of 13339
Taxiti xt is such a beast card. For 400 is blow away the competition
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post #1795 of 13339
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRLiToS View Post


Where did I say Nvidia is so bad? Don't start changing what I said.

Your comment inferred that Nvidia is only able to compete with AMD when they make something much more expensive:

"Nvidia needs a 1000$ GPU to surpass the 350$ GPU from AMD"

Whereas an unbiased critice would have said something like:

Nvidia has finally defeated AMD in the Single-GPU category, but at what price? At $1000 for the Titan compared to $350 for the 7970, it would be hard to justify the purchase, considering the relatively small gains in performance in comparison to the increase in price.

And this little comment here:

Look guys what a 1050$ card can do the the single card category (Plague)

It shows that you resent the card. Which is further explained as a dislike for Nvidia when you continued the rest of your statements.

Best way I can put it for you...is pretend that you're running for president. There's a full room. And you're about to give a speech in a room with 50% women and 50% men. You may like men more because you are a man. But you're always overly careful about what you say to make sure half the people in the room don't get upset with you. wink.gif
post #1796 of 13339
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

Your comment inferred that Nvidia is only able to compete with AMD when they make something much more expensive:

"Nvidia needs a 1000$ GPU to surpass the 350$ GPU from AMD"

Whereas an unbiased critice would have said something like:

Nvidia has finally defeated AMD in the Single-GPU category, but at what price? At $1000 for the Titan compared to $350 for the 7970, it would be hard to justify the purchase, considering the relatively small gains in performance in comparison to the increase in price.

Sorry but english is not my mother language. Get over it man... What are you trying to prove anyway, are you trying to prove that I am making some fanboyism. If I would be fanboying like you pretend, I wouldn't update the chart and I wouldn't PM Users with Nvidia and Titan to make a bench.

Quote:
And this little comment here:

Look guys what a 1050$ card can do the the single card category (Plague)

It shows that you resent the card. Which is further explained as a dislike for Nvidia when you continued the rest of your statements.

Again, where do I mention about Nvidia in this sentence, I mention about the High Price of the GTX Titan, GTX Titan, GTX Titan, GTX Titan


GTX Titan




Hey by the way Hyper Matrix. I am the one that contacted you to make some bench to enter in the chart knowing you had tri-sli. Why do you accuse me of fanboyism? I'll post the PM, you even accuse an AMD member of cheating. You wouldn't even know about the thread if it wasnt me asking you, and since then you did two run with different cards that I Updated right away.




Need more proof?



Edited by KaRLiToS - 3/1/13 at 12:22pm
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post #1797 of 13339
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMatrix View Post

Well, speaking to my own issues with your post, it's just that it came off a bit fanboyishly. I didn't write anything because I expect fanboyishness. Even from myself when defending my reasoning for purchasing the GTX Titan's. I have no problem with AMD cards. For single card setups I always recommend the 7970 over the GTX 680. Though I went with Quad-SLI GTX 680's prior to the Titan's because I can't stand the microstutter of AMD cards in Crossfire. Before my GTX 680's, I had a 6970. Before that, a GTX 590. And before that, and AMD 4870. So...I go with whatever is good at the time, for myself.

Now...the only issue I took with your comment about the GTX Titan vs 7970 is that it doesn't take into account the reason for the pricing. And that it's not that Nvidia had to make a card that cost so much in order to be able to compete. This would be the same as me coming and posting "Haha...look at what the 680 can do with a 294mm die, 2gb vram, and 256bit bus. Your stupid AMD card needed a 20% bigger die, 50% wider bus, and 50% more vram to be able to be better. And way to suck with microstutter!!" My statement would be entirely factual. But it also chooses to focus on the aspects that are helpful to further my own view/position. In my example, I refuse to ignore that while the 7970 does need all those additional features to beat the 680, it is still a faster card in most applications and that a single 7970 is more than enough for a 1080p display so Microstutter is rarely an issue

With your comparison to the GTX Titan again, it comes down to the same reason Nvidia initially launched the GTX 680. When it came out, the card was superior to the 7970 in a lot of benchmarks. It wasn't until some major driver improvements from AMD before we saw the 7970 become such a great card. Nvidia wasn't "technologically held back" by any means. The original 680 was originally intended to be the 670. But because it performed (at the time) so well against the 7970, Nvidia decided to capitalize on that and make a lot of money by selling it as the flagship card. The same situation with the GTX Titan now. It is important to note that this is more than just a gaming card. But it's also about maximizing profits for them. They're using a a die size only 6% larger than they had on their GTX 580 card. But because of the performance it gives, and because AMD is not going to launch a new card this year, they found yet another way to capitalize $$.

Now...the other part of my problem. Look at this statement: "Intel is so bad. It only took a $1100 CPU (3970x) to beat Intel's $330 CPU (3770k)." Sounds silly...I know...but I'm going somewhere with this. Now...let's pretend gaming was more advanced and actually used all the cores in a processor efficiently. That chip would only be 32%~ faster than the 3770k. Yet...the price is $750 more. And it's the exact same company. So what we see is that it's a business decision. And because people are always willing to pay a higher premium for "The Best" of anything. Astronomically more than the Performance Per $ is worth. Because that's not the most important factor for everybody. So the GTX Titan is providing a good improvement in performance over the 7970 without the microstutter you normally see in AMD multi-card setups. Especially for people who want to stay away from SLI/Crossfire. And it's charging that premium price for it. Just as intel does with its range of cpu's.

Just keep all that in mind. And keep up the great work with the thread.

It was going fine till you said 680 supposed to be the 670 and thats where i stopped reading..
Nvidia PR marketing is quite something..

If thats the case i would have released this titan as 680 and take the whole market for myself and leave amd in the dust... But guess what? That just are wet dreams by some of you...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

you need another 1k for that lol

Back to the benchmarks all titans would be equal because of the tdp so all will do the same score with the same setup/combo.. What a shame...
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 3/1/13 at 12:37pm
post #1798 of 13339
C'mon guys, NO!

We already have a GTX Titan reviews thread with over 3000 replies about this exact same argument. Lets talk benchmarks here and benchmarks only.

too many threads have been ruined by this stuff, lets not make this one another one.
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post #1799 of 13339
Its pretty bad that you try to justified the price of a titan. If you need the performance you just pay. But the fact is that nvidia wins a 350 $ gpu for 1000$. Its a great card but please dont try to justified the price.

I remember karlitos to want to get titan. Dont talk about fanboyism if you cant handle the truth

In the future i will get a used titan(cuda) because its a great entry compute card and i dont have the money for a tesla
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post #1800 of 13339
if karlitos would be biased he would do a top 30 and thats it... good luck catching tsm/karlitos score..

Even if is only one bench.. This has to be the most a to z collection of data gathered out there on the internetz not even anandtech gets close to this from different kinds of setups...
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 3/1/13 at 12:11pm
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