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[Tesla Motors] New York Times - Test Drive Fail

post #1 of 178
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Found this interesting - lemme know if its a re-post.
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When I first heard about what could at best be described as irregularities in Broder’s behavior during the test drive, I called to apologize for any inconvenience that he may have suffered and sought to put my concerns to rest, hoping that he had simply made honest mistakes. That was not the case.

In his own words in an article published last year, this is how Broder felt about electric cars before even seeing the Model S:

"Yet the state of the electric car is dismal, the victim of hyped expectations, technological flops, high costs and a hostile political climate.”

When the facts didn’t suit his opinion, he simply changed the facts. Our request of The New York Times is simple and fair: please investigate this article and determine the truth. You are a news organization where that principle is of paramount importance and what is at stake for sustainable transport is simply too important to the world to ignore.

A few of the fails:
Quote:
-On that leg, he drove right past a public charge station while the car repeatedly warned him that it was very low on range.

-Cruise control was never set to 54 mph as claimed in the article, nor did he limp along at 45 mph. Broder in fact drove at speeds from 65 mph to 81 mph for a majority of the trip and at an average cabin temperature setting of 72 F.

-At the point in time that he claims to have turned the temperature down, he in fact turned the temperature up to 74 F
Read full article for more.

It's kinda sad how dumb the dude is, thinking he could get away with it.

I for one really like the idea of electric cars. I hope the tech takes off big soon.
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post #2 of 178
CNN did their own test drive where they drove it from DC to Boston.
The results are mystifying. Especially what they say about the NYT.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s/
post #3 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia 
The base Model S starts at US$59,900 with a 40 kW·h battery pack up to US$79,900 with the 85 kW·h pack before any government subsidies.

Pretty expensive.

If you consider the fuel costs of a normal car.

95MPG is what the lower 40 kW-h is rated for, when you convert the energy cost over to gasoline.
At $3.20 per gallon of gas in the US, that would be roughly 3¢ per mile in "fuel" costs if it were to use gasoline.
However it doesn't use gasoline and using the current electricity cost in the US of 12¢ per kWh and the fact that this car gets 100miles per 35kWh...
Then this car actually costs 4¢ per mile to drive, or $1 per 25miles.

47MPG is what the 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid gets.
So at $3.20 per gallon of gas in US, that would be roughly 7¢ per mile, or $1.75 per 25miles.
This car costs $27,200.

The 2013 Ford Focus costs $16,200 and gets roughly 32MPG.
At the same $3.20 per gallon of gas, that would be roughly 10¢ per mile, or $2.5 per 25miles.

2013 Tesla Model S = $59,900 (Base Line)
2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid -= +$32,700 than Tesla and 3¢ fuel difference.
2013 Ford Focus = +$43,700 than Tesla and 6¢ fuel difference.

For the Fusion, it would take roughly 1,090,000 miles to to cost the same as the Tesla.
For the Focus, it would take roughly 728,333 miles to cost the same as the Tesla.

Let's say that all the cars last roughly 200,000 miles and requires no maintenance.
The total cost of the Model S is $67,900.
The total cost of the Fusion is $41,200.
The total cost of the Focus is $36,200.

So while the car is technically super efficient on "fuel", costing only 4¢ per mile
(which is 75% more efficient than the Fusion, and 150% more efficient than the Focus),

the actual base cost of the car sends it skyrocketing out of total efficiency
(being 40% less efficient than the Fusion and 47% less efficient than the Focus).

I conclude that base price and quality of parts is much more important than fuel efficiency.

Edited by kennyparker1337 - 2/15/13 at 9:39am
post #4 of 178
My biggest issue with electric cars is that power has to be generated by something. Either by coal, gas, water, wind, solar, or nuclear. I am okay with people that want to be green, but not with the pitch that buying and operating an electric car is some how saving you money.

I do agree that it is sad that the media publishes FALSE information, but that is why we must challenge stories and look at multiple sources.

that is my rant for the day!
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post #5 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester435 View Post

My biggest issue with electric cars is that power has to be generated by something. Either by coal, gas, water, wind, solar, or nuclear. I am okay with people that want to be green, but not with the pitch that buying and operating an electric car is some how saving you money.

I do agree that it is sad that the media publishes FALSE information, but that is why we must challenge stories and look at multiple sources.

that is my rant for the day!

Electric cars have already been proven with current power generation methods to be as or more environmentally destructive in their entire life cycle. The reason is simple...we still use coal, gas, and other methods of electric generation that produce the same or similar by products as gas powered cars. The only difference is the end user (often stupid) doesn't see any "pollution" coming from their electric vehicle even though they now have increased demand on the power grid and in turn the production of the very by-products they think they're helping eliminate. Unless nuclear power (which is far cleaner and safer than the hippies/media or the oil industry would like you to believe) or some other method is used electric cars do nothing for the environment but they might be helpful in moving away from massive oil needs.
     
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post #6 of 178
I've ridden in one of these and it's fantastic. Can't wait til they come down in price a bit.
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post #7 of 178
lol at UK Top Gear.

It really doesnt surprise me, everything on that show is scripted/produced and should be taken with a grain of salt. It's a show for entertainment, not for in depth car reviews. I learned all of this going to a filming of US Top Gear. I signed an NDA so I guess I cant really talk about how they film the show, but yeah.

I like Top Gear though definitely. Though i believe their "races" are no where near as close as they make it out to be.
 
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post #8 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

Electric cars have already been proven with current power generation methods to be as or more environmentally destructive in their entire life cycle. The reason is simple...we still use coal, gas, and other methods of electric generation that produce the same or similar by products as gas powered cars. The only difference is the end user (often stupid) doesn't see any "pollution" coming from their electric vehicle even though they now have increased demand on the power grid and in turn the production of the very by-products they think they're helping eliminate. Unless nuclear power (which is far cleaner and safer than the hippies/media or the oil industry would like you to believe) or some other method is used electric cars do nothing for the environment but they might be helpful in moving away from massive oil needs.

This. So much this. People think we are some how averting pollution and the fuel price crisis all at once, when really we are doing neither. What needs to happen for electrical cars to be viable is a couple of things:

1. People get over the stigma against nuclear power. Nuclear power is so much more efficient and less polluting and all those other good things.

2. We need more efficient battery technologies. Ones we have today are really big, super expensive, not fun to dispose of, go bad quickly, aren't efficient enough. If we can get some really awesome battery technologies, maybe then we can look at storing more energy collected from the solar panels and such (energy that is basically free to collect).
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post #9 of 178
I just don't understand the point in electric cars. They still use power from the regular power grid which is far from environmentally friendly as we know. Ridiculous charging times, batteries that will need to be replaced after a decent amount of use. Not to mention the lovely chemicals that go into battier And of course, extremely expensive compared to their gasoline and diesel counterparts.

I'm willing to bet somethng like a Golf TDI has a smaller impact on the environment compared to these all electric cars. As of now, I feel they are nothing more than an ironic status symbol.
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post #10 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by stcawthern View Post

I just don't understand the point in electric cars. They still use power from the regular power grid which is far from environmentally friendly as we know. Ridiculous charging times, batteries that will need to be replaced after a decent amount of use. Not to mention the lovely chemicals that go into battier And of course, extremely expensive compared to their gasoline and diesel counterparts.

I'm willing to bet somethng like a Golf TDI has a smaller impact on the environment compared to these all electric cars. As of now, I feel they are nothing more than an ironic status symbol.

A gasoline car requires pollution to get the fuel and burns out more pollution when using the fuel.
An electric car requires less pollution to get the fuel (in the case of nuclear power plants) and no burns out 0 pollution when using the fuel.
They definitely are more pollution efficient.

The base price of the current all electric cars is what is killing the fuel efficiency though.
If their base price were to come to to current hybrid prices, they would totally destroy the hybrid market.

So the point of electric cars is both pollution efficiency and fuel efficiency.
Edited by kennyparker1337 - 2/15/13 at 9:50am
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