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[Tesla Motors] New York Times - Test Drive Fail - Page 12

post #111 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAD_J View Post

Just so people know, Tesla Motors has been going after people who gave their car bad reviews, they sued Top gear for their review of the car.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TopGear/comments/18jha3/top_gears_response_to_teslas_accusations_from/

Its just a bad car, pure electric powered cars arent ready they dont have the range or enough charging locations and Tesla isn't ready to admit it.

Given both of those reviews, I don't blame them for standing their ground. Suing? Maybe not a wise idea.

Tesla's aren't bad cars. Ready for mainstream probably not yet. Most of their owners seem to be quite happy with their purchases so they must be doing something right. For me, I would love to own one, but I can't see spending that much on any car and my commute would not allow me the range they advertise. Hell my experience test driving a Prius was pretty poor too. I barely got 40mpg (lots of hills and twisties). Both of my motorcycles get better gas mileage.

In 5 years we'll see how EV's are doing. Until then I'll ride my 2 wheeler with a smile on my face as I filter though traffic.
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post #112 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by stcawthern View Post

I actually believe Top Gear got something right when they said the Honda Clarity is the future of motoring. Once hydrogen fuel cells become much cheaper to produce and the hydrogen infrastructure gets built. It is a MUCH better solution than electric cars will ever be.
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post #113 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

I agree completely ... especially about the "40 years ago when I was a kid part".

Back in the 70's when I was a 20-something, they told us that the world was going to run out of oil by the 80's. 30 years later, we still aren't out, and not only are we not out, it is STILL a cheaper form of energy than most other forms of power.

Nail on head. The market will let us know when oil is becoming scarce, don't worry...
post #114 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Nail on head. The market will let us know when oil is becoming scarce, don't worry...

Are you serious...? Oil is 500% more expensive than it was in the 90's. If that isn't the market telling you that fossil fuels are becoming scarce, what is?
post #115 of 178
Oil is still by far the cheapest source of energy there is though which is the point. It's still very easy to get but demand is much higher than it was in the 90's...
post #116 of 178
It is insane how much more vehicles we have - perhaps this is not true for the US, but it is a definite increase in Asia and developing countries in general (u know, some millions getting richer and some billions poorer, still equates to millions of new cars).

We have to take into account the mentality of people in each region: the US market, or at least those trying to manipulate it, doesn't allow for small displacement turbo engines that are becoming the norm in EU. They prefer a low-tech, high displacement and mediocre hp/lt engine that will keep going for longer...

Ofc hybrids are far from a simple technology leap. Much more stuff that can go wrong with those than with a low boost turbo.
Despite the existence of multiple 4cyl 1.0-1.6lt supercharged engines that rival the Prius' efficiency and definitely its power output (considering the extra weight of the batteries etc), the prius is left with good aerodynamics for essence, and its "i am green and hip" marketing mentality.

Its environmental footprint for both building and recycling, makes it far less "green" than you would like it to be, yet that is not enough to rock ppl's minds.
Prius is the "mac" of cars. "You just know its better". It is a matter of faith, not evidence.
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post #117 of 178
zero emissions is a bit of a misdirection in itself. if you use say, 100 kWh in a new tesla (or whatever), you are using 100 kWh equivalent of coal/oil/gas burned at the plant to generate it....anyone see the south park episode with the SMUG CLOUD when ppl started buying hybrids?

...also power transmission is not lossless in the HV lines that run from plant -> distribution nodes -> your neighboorhood
*real life superconducting-line tests have been done, but its way expensive, needs a huge net energy input to keep the lines cooled down enough),etc


here are a few potential solutions and notes:

wind farms - eyesores , expensive, but still an interesting idea for geographics with proper wind patterns (there is a net energy input to manufacture one of these, i wonder how long it has to operate to be in the black for net environmental impact)

offshore wave energy harnessing - a great idea, however not widely used and it creates something for ships to have to navigate around

battery packs in cars TODAY - very toxic/harmful ingredients that make it up (thats why you cant just put it in your compost heap when you are done)

biofuels- redirecting a food crop to be used as a FUEL??? that is a stupidly insane idea...now if its made out of waste material only, cellulose, etc...then thats a little better, but still biofuels E85 and the like give you worse gas milage

bottom line is electricity itself is "clean" (can create ozone though)...its point of generation is rarely so (for most urbanites like myself)...though I do like the hybrid idea for now, recapturing brake energy etc is a step in the right direction

the only real long term solutions are nuclear solutions, but there is still much stigma/taboo surrounding its implementation/risks and use (no, a nuclar blast won't occur if something flies into the cooling tower...its a big empty water vapour tower, for example)

short term: increase compression on engines/improve gas milage, be energy-aware of everything you do...

i had an awesome heat transfer professor in college that spent a whole day talking about (among other things) the energy/gram of various substances used for fuel, and per gram(fluid oz)/unit measurement gasoline is still way up on the mountain top with diesel...

LINK for a comparison of gasoline over other sources in terms of unit energy


EDIT: final comment, I work inthe oil industry and there is a huge surplus of CNG out there (very high octane #) just waiting to be used, we could be almost energy self-relient as a nation if we could convert power plants and the like to full CNG operation...and theres plenty more under us, we just have to input energy and drill for it
Edited by flash2021 - 2/15/13 at 5:34pm
post #118 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash2021 View Post

zero emissions is a bit of a misdirection in itself. if you use say, 100 kWh in a new tesla (or whatever), you are using 100 kWh equivalent of coal/oil/gas burned at the plant to generate it....anyone see the south park episode with the SMUG CLOUD when ppl started buying hybrids?

...also power transmission is not lossless in the HV lines that run from plant -> distribution nodes -> your neighboorhood
*real life superconducting-line tests have been done, but its way expensive, needs a huge net energy input to keep the lines cooled down enough),etc


here are a few potential solutions and notes:

wind farms - eyesores , expensive, but still an interesting idea for geographics with proper wind patterns (there is a net energy input to manufacture one of these, i wonder how long it has to operate to be in the black for net environmental impact)

offshore wave energy harnessing - a great idea, however not widely used and it creates something for ships to have to navigate around

battery packs in cars TODAY - very toxic/harmful ingredients that make it up (thats why you cant just put it in your compost heap when you are done)

biofuels- redirecting a food crop to be used as a FUEL??? that is a stupidly insane idea...now if its made out of waste material only, cellulose, etc...then thats a little better, but still biofuels E85 and the like give you worse gas milage

bottom line is electricity itself is "clean" (can create ozone though)...its point of generation is rarely so (for most urbanites like myself)...though I do like the hybrid idea for now, recapturing brake energy etc is a step in the right direction

the only real long term solutions are nuclear solutions, but there is still much stigma/taboo surrounding its implementation/risks and use (no, a nuclar blast won't occur if something flies into the cooling tower...its a big empty water vapour tower, for example)

short term: increase compression on engines/improve gas milage, be energy-aware of everything you do...

i had an awesome heat transfer professor in college that spent a whole day talking about (among other things) the energy/gram of various substances used for fuel, and per gram(fluid oz)/unit measurement gasoline is still way up on the mountain top with diesel...

LINK for a comparison of gasoline over other sources in terms of unit energy


EDIT: final comment, I work inthe oil industry and there is a huge surplus of CNG out there (very high octane #) just waiting to be used, we could be almost energy self-relient as a nation if we could convert power plants and the like to full CNG operation...and theres plenty more under us, we just have to input energy and drill for it

doesnt have to be burning stuff..
nuclear..wind...tidal energy works

whichever form of energy however, will shift the equilibrium elsewhere...the issue is that we have too much co2 in the air and atmosphere right now, which is why we should look to a different form of energy..
now carrying a nuclear reactor in a car is not an option considering the fact that we let idiots drive(and the fact that its pretty hard to put one of those in a car) which is where electric comes in
 
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post #119 of 178
Not too sure about tesla's electric car, but I would definitely buy the electric bike.. Not having to pull on those hundreds of kilos of chassis is the trick.. Then we can think about battery performance and all the other cons..
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post #120 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

I don't think that electric cars are YET the answer. There are way too many issues with batteries, charging times, warranties, lack of recharging stations, not to mention the simple fact of the matter that in the US, the vast majority of electricity is produced from fossil burning fuels (mainly coal).

Now, maybe in another 20 years, when battery technology matures even more, if this country would build another 400 nuclear reactors to replace the majority of coal fired plants, and after several hundred billion dollars worth of recharging station building, THEN electric cars will make sense.

But having said all that ...

I find the most shocking (ok, so I really don't, given the New York Times bias and unprofessional "journalism") is just how messed up the New York Times writer flat out LIED about his experience.

This.

People forget that actually making the batteries is an environmental disaster to begin with...they need a better storage medium.

Hydrogen is my first choice,forget batteries,that's stop gap at best.
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