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[Tesla Motors] New York Times - Test Drive Fail - Page 4

post #31 of 178
This guy will never be able to have a negative review taken seriously again in his career. That is if he still has a career after this all blows over. Shame on him for lying.
post #32 of 178
I'm glad there is some backlash to false information and negative publicity, especially when it involves companies that are just starting out and trying to establish themselves.


1. Electric cars are the future. The amount of energy lost in friction, heat, etc is so dramatically less than a combustion engine that this should be obvious.

2. Batteries are a non-concern. Every passing year sees improvements in battery technology in capacitance, charge rate, and life-time. You could also use a small lithium nuclear powered generator (like the ones for in-home use) to fuel it. Eventually, I'd like to see someone discover a way to actually produce electricity (release electrons), but until then we can make do with generating it via glorified steam turbines through coal, nuclear fission, etc. You could also do something such as have the entire car's skin made of solar collecting materials.

3. The Model S and the upcoming 4WD Model X are specifically designed to cater to the more wealthy, such as people who would buy a Lexus. Tesla does have plans to release another sedan after the Model X that will cater more to mainstream customers. That said, their lack of manufacturing facilities is still their weakest point: there is an enormous demand for their cars and a very long waiting list in order to buy one.

4. The company itself also has the possibility of eventually becoming involved with its sister company, SpaceX. After SpaceX becomes more widely used by corporations and governments, there will eventually become a need to produce electric vehicles able to traverse the surface of the moon and mars.
post #33 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Not really.

Power plants have much greater efficiency at turning fuel into power, and even after transmission and storage losses, an electric vehicle creates much less pollution than an ICE powered one, if we are talking about the energy the vehicle uses for operation.

However, it's more costly and more polluting to make that electric vehicle in the first place, and safely disposing of batteries is a big hassle.

The last study I read which was about 3 years ago stated that they barely maintain the power for the grid as is. How could they be more efficient when you add in greater burden on them? Just imagine these things adding to the load. Honestly, if the charging stations were localized nuclear powered reactors (there are plenty of these designs but again no one uses them even though most have proven viable).

quote name="kennyparker1337" url="/t/1361019/tesla-motors-new-york-times-test-drive-fail#post_19298141"]
A gasoline car requires pollution to get the fuel and burns out more pollution when using the fuel.
An electric car requires less pollution to get the fuel (in the case of nuclear power plants) and no burns out 0 pollution when using the fuel.
They definitely are more pollution efficient.

The base price of the current all electric cars is what is killing the fuel efficiency though.
If their base price were to come to to current hybrid prices, they would totally destroy the hybrid market.

So the point of electric cars is both pollution efficiency and fuel efficiency.[/quote]

You completely ignored manufacturing pollution that these cars are part of. In fact that alone either makes them as pollutive over their lifetime of use or more pollutive than current ICE cars. Again the reason is simple. We are not using nuclear power when we should have been getting almost 90% from it by now.

I'm not saying they can not be in the future but as of right now without changing the source of power generation they are equal or worse than ICE cars for the environment. That said...I still would prefer them do to their other characteristics and likely reduction in oil dependence they could give the world.
     
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post #34 of 178
I just don't see any pressing need to force people onto electric cars when the tech is not ready and there is a viable and ready source and infrastructure for gasoline in place. Current gas engines are very efficient and most perform under ULEV standards which are very low emission. With breakthroughs in oil exploration such as fracking we could be looking at another 100 years+ of oil resources so the utterly fabricated premise that we need to switch to electric vehicles now is sensationalist and stupid. The internal combustion engine has a lot of life left in it...
post #35 of 178
Environmental effects of the disposal of the batteries need to be considered as well. And for those who are interested, this site contains papers written by a geologist who explains the greenhouse effect as it relates to the earth's atmosphere and co2 levels in the atmosphere. http://geologist-1011.net/
Edited by llxkevinxll - 2/15/13 at 10:38am
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post #36 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

The last study I read which was about 3 years ago stated that they barely maintain the power for the grid as is. How could they be more efficient when you add in greater burden on them? Just imagine these things adding to the load.

This is an utterly unrelated issue, not that there are enough electric cars or charging stations to really matter to the gird at this point.

My point is that a good ICE is under 25% efficient at turning gasoline into power to move a car.

A modern fossil fuel power plant is ~60% efficient at turning fuel into electricity, and electric motors are extremely efficient (90%) at turning electricity into motive force.

If it takes 10 pounds of fuel burned to have a normal ICE powered car go 50 miles, a similarly size electric car would go 100 or more.
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post #37 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I just don't see any pressing need to force people onto electric cars when the tech is not ready and there is a viable and ready source and infrastructure for gasoline in place. Current gas engines are very efficient and most perform under ULEV standards which are very low emission. With breakthroughs in oil exploration such as fracking we could be looking at another 100 years+ of oil resources so the utterly fabricated premise that we need to switch to electric vehicles now is sensationalist and stupid. The internal combustion engine has a lot of life left in it...

I believe that the majority of US consumers agree with you..

electric vehicles now account for 3.4 percent of the U.S. light-vehicle market in this year’s first quarter, up from 2.6 percent last year. Hybrid model sales fell to 2.2 percent, sliding from 2.4 percent in 2010 — after peaking at 2.8 percent in 2009.

We are talking about such a small percentage of new car sales. Hybrids sales are already dropping.

Car manufactures don't want to have to create a new power supply infrastructure in the US.. easier to make cleaner and more efficient ICE vehicles
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post #38 of 178
Who cares? The surplus availability of oil combined with the massive infrastructure in place for it negates any efficiency arguments against it. There's just no NEED right now to switch to electric technology while oil is still such a viable resource. The market will always dictate what is necessary no matter how much people or governments try to influence it...
post #39 of 178
Some of you are throwing around the term "Nuclear Power" all while blissfully ignorant of the facts.

As its Stands:

Fission is an ancient,inefficient, obsolete, and not to mention extremely hazardous and dirty method of electrical generation. The world has almost forgotten Fission, and I am glad. It was nothing more then a stepping stone in the right direction, but by it self is a technology that serves no viable purpose.

Why?
1: Rare Earth Metals are required, and by rare i mean REALLY FRIGGIN RARE
2: Radioactive waste that takes centuries to millenia to become inert.
3: Instability, and potential for huge disasters, I mean jesus look at what Japan went through.

Here where the Future lies.

FUSION, and not with lithum fusion either, thats extremely inefficient.

Look up "ITER" it will answer all your questions, thats the future, and thats when Tesla is going to become the next Ford.

If I was "ya'll" I'd start investing in Tesla, because in 7 years the world is making one hell of a turn around, count on it.
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post #40 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyparker1337 View Post

Pretty expensive.

-- snip --

Let's say that all the cars last roughly 200,000 miles and requires no maintenance.
The total cost of the Model S is $67,900.
The total cost of the Fusion is $41,200.
The total cost of the Focus is $36,200.

So while the car is technically super efficient on "fuel", costing only 4¢ per mile
(which is 75% more efficient than the Fusion, and 150% more efficient than the Focus),

the actual base cost of the car sends it skyrocketing out of total efficiency
(being 40% less efficient than the Fusion and 47% less efficient than the Focus).

I conclude that base price and quality of parts is much more important than fuel efficiency.

Nice!
It is cheaper to buy a gas guzzler and install performance parts to improve efficiency (and a more fun ride) than it is to purchase a small electric car. tongue.gif
Good technology but not there yet.
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