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[HardwareCanucks]AMD Clarifies 2013 Graphics Strategy: New Cards, Same Architecture, Some Surprises - Page 23

post #221 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomfix View Post

Whats wrong with GCN? Why are they scrapping GCN already?

its been said time and again that GCN is the architecture for AMD's products for the next few years. AMD has clarified that recently too

http://techreport.com/review/24368/fate-of-amd-sea-islands-obscured-in-the-fog

"TR: Let me ask a question, because you said that there are some late 2013 products coming. Are those part of Sea Islands, or are they something else?

Dave Baumann: [long pause] We cannot really make comments on what exactly the product stack are and what the roadmap names are, etc. etc. You know, there's plenty exciting new products to look at when they come later in the year.

TR: Are they based on GCN architecture or are they something substantially new?

Darren McPhee: Graphics Core Next is the architecture that we're committed to as a company for years to come. So Graphics Core Next will be at the core of all of our products for the next several years."

GCN will have enhancements but the core architecture is the foundation for generations to come. GCN is also the architecture in the PS4 and Xbox Next. GCN will be around for a very long time , in fact more than the previous R520 based architecture which lasted from 2007 - 2011.

As some one said above the fact that AMD does not have anything to even come close to Titan is the reason Nvidia can afford to price the Titan at USD 900. if following the past cadence AMD had a HD 8970 which was 20 - 25% faster than HD 7970 Ghz (30 - 35% faster than GTX 680) and priced it at USD 500 Nvidia would be forced to price Titan at USD 700. Nvidia would also bring another SKU ala GTX 570 at USD 500 - 550. In fact if Nvidia got aggressive and priced Titan at USD 500 - 550 AMD would be forced to price even a HD 8970 at USD 350 - 370 like the GF110 generation.

But now Nvidia knows it can sell Titan at USD 900. there is no single chip GPU which will come anywhere close to Titan. In fact when yields improve we can be sure Nvidia will release a full GK110 based Geforce in H2 2013. It might be the first single chip GPU to sell at USD 1000. well done AMD for screwing the market without competing. mad.gif
Edited by raghu78 - 2/16/13 at 11:54pm
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post #222 of 423
Was is not said around late November or December that they had the 8970 ready to go but decided to hold off for some reason? Thought i read that somewhere.
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post #223 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Assuming they keep dropping prices, short of paying exorbitant amounts for large screens or 120Hz Eyefinity, etc, what issues would you have maxing out every game ever on HD7970Ghz CFX? There's not much point in a new GPU if you already run a HD7870 or faster until the end of the year anyway, you can probably max everything out unless you run a large screen.

You're saying this to one of most known multi monitor / crazy GPU setups guys on OCN, congratulations the dunce hat is in the corner.

I'll let you grab it then, as a forum is a public place and my post (While directed obviously) was also meant for anyone complaining about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

I recall two years ago, Tom's Hardware demonstrated a tri-CF of a dual 6870 GPU card and a single 6870 GPU card beating the snot out of the dual 6970 and 580 setups and had better price per performance. Plus, there were no micro-stuttering for some reason.

Sadly, there's no dual 660 or 7870 GPU cards to repeat that again...

That would introduce a huge memory bandwidth issue. People seem to be of 2 worlds in this thread. Those running 1080p, and those who actually like their gaming to look good. These midstream setups are all well and good at 1080p, but introduce some large resolutions into the mix and things go to hell in a hand basket. I'm tired of hearing the "you don't need x performance ... " crap from people, and I thought my sarcastic quip about our hardware overlords would have hit a little closer to home with some of you.

People need to get off their AMD fanboy bandwagon and realize that huge delays in releases are in no way shape or form good for the consumer. The more power you give this company to dictate when you can get something, the worse the situation will become.

Gaming can't look good on a 1080p screen? Then how does having 2 extra ones and a bunch of bezels in the way improve matters? wink.gif
You've lost all credibility with that part, for a lot of people buying 3 screens is a waste of money for only gaming, hell, if I get 3 1080p+ screens it'll mainly be for work, not gaming...The amount of people who run those for gaming is really small, the only reason it was added was literally because they had the 6 displays at once thing for laptop OEMs and figured why not.
    
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post #224 of 423
isnt it better for devs to catch up and use existing power available rather than lazily code and release stuff that demands too much? taking a break from the upgrade cycle helps towards this much like with a console where they have to start optimizing

the power is still there now. just think how fast a 5850/5870 was not such a long time ago vs the gen before and there are titles that come out looking as good as any other than will run on those at 1080p and a decent frame rate, 6 series was a bit Meh but the 7 series brought good power savings along with a really decent boost in performance (at added cost i may add) and yet devs still manage to get those cards below 60fps at 1080p on games that dont really push the envelope.

imagine if right now the devs were forced to optimize games for a 7xxx / 600 series current gen they would look amazing, consoles are looking really old now but in fairness some games aren't too far behind overall in visual quality through extremely clever coding and they run awful GPU's
post #225 of 423
The reason why developers did not push for better hardware was because they hit a wall in PS3 and Xbox 360, which both are nearly 9 years old. 9 years is an extremely long time for a computer, even standardized ones.

However, programming three separate versions was more expensive than porting a console one over to the PC. That is why GPUs back in the mid 2000s were still being mentioned in the "recommended" system requirements for many games.

By "waiting for them", there would be less incentive to keep pushing the software envelope.

Software follows hardware, not the other way around.
post #226 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I've used a few x3 and x4 setups, none from this gen of cards. Actually the only card from this gen I've even tested is a 670, I dunno why this gen didn't really get my attention. And by used I mean at least a full day of tweaking for benchmarking. (10+ hours).

Maybe my opinion is based on older setups but those setups left a really bad taste in my mouth (earliest one was 3870x2 CFX, dear lord that was horrible). As a student I don't have the funds for current 4 way setups. A single titan will be on my shopping list though.

Oh and the amount of titans made at first is supposed to be 10K

Ok, I respect your opinion then, since you did, at least, try it. smile.gif

What I don't like is people with no hands-on experience commenting that it can't be done and can't be working smoothly.

It can be done. And it's working fine. The latest AMD drivers over the last 2 months were tremendous improvement for Tri/Quad-Fire set-ups.

10K only? I'm always working, and don't have the time to refresh a page every 2 seconds at midnight. It will take me weeks to find 4. frown.gif
    
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post #227 of 423
I've never gone with more than two cards just for aesthetic purposes. Two has always worked fine for me but if I needed the power I wouldn't hesitate to go with a four-card solution...
post #228 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

I'm just curious, but you know all this how exactly?

I still don't understand the thought process that GK110 didn't need to come out. If that were the case and Nvidia could have unleashed the beast then:

a.) Why didn't they do it already? I don't think a $900+ would have stopped them from selling 680's, and 670's
b.) Why is Titan being released in such limited quantities?

Its a marketing / sales question, if you are familiar at all with the history of 3DFX, you would know why you don't release something right away when its done, if there is no market competition for it. NVidia was perfectly fine with the 680 sitting in 2nd place as far as single card goes, because they had the 690 out for the trump card as the "best card available" and simply point, the 7970 reached its max when they released the GE bios. The 680 was still close enough to not merit a newer release in the GeForce 600 series. They don't have the issue marketing a dual GPU card, like AMD does, because in the kepler architecture, they crippled the compute capabilities of the card, so it would not compete with its industrial offerings.

A) GK110 being priced at 900$ is losing them money. They are selling the chips in the Tesla series for $2,500+, the only reason to sell these chips at this lower price point, is they have been binned badly on TDP. The option is to sell off the chips after crippling the compute section, or simply trash the core. 900$ then makes it a viable way to get rid of the excess and still make money.
B) Scarcity drives up price and hype. There is a ton of other reasons, hell maybe they only have a certain limited amount binned they want to sell as a titan, and not a lower clocked tesla.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Gaming can't look good on a 1080p screen? Then how does having 2 extra ones and a bunch of bezels in the way improve matters? wink.gif
You've lost all credibility with that part, for a lot of people buying 3 screens is a waste of money for only gaming, hell, if I get 3 1080p+ screens it'll mainly be for work, not gaming...The amount of people who run those for gaming is really small, the only reason it was added was literally because they had the 6 displays at once thing for laptop OEMs and figured why not.

I might have been a bit off when I said 1080p doesn't look that good. What I meant was 1080p 60hz, doesn't look that good. I've jacked up the view on my 1200p monitor, and was not impressed, so I got my 1440p monitor, and at least now things are looking a bit better. Sure bezels in the way are annoying, but at least you can get more of a view. Just because few people do the setups does not mean, it doesn't look better in higher resolutions.
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post #229 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post



Now that they have consoles to deliver, we should just sit back and accept that AMD is stagnating progress? No thanks!
EXACTLY. And that goes for both sides.

I've seen people with 680's jump for joy that 7xx is rumored to be delayed to Q4 as well.

These people need / want to have the relevancy of having the latest gear. Stagnating progress is not a good thing for the consumer by any means.

Competition is what drives innovation.
.

yep...I'm still jumping for joy.

This might suck for those looking to buy because they were holding out for GK110...but for the current Kepler owners this is good news.

I don't mind a bit of stagnation if it keeps my wallet safe for hopefully another 3 years when next-gen console games are in full force and they introduce DX12

Selfish right?
     
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post #230 of 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

isnt it better for devs to catch up and use existing power available rather than lazily code and release stuff that demands too much? taking a break from the upgrade cycle helps towards this much like with a console where they have to start optimizing

the power is still there now. just think how fast a 5850/5870 was not such a long time ago vs the gen before and there are titles that come out looking as good as any other than will run on those at 1080p and a decent frame rate, 6 series was a bit Meh but the 7 series brought good power savings along with a really decent boost in performance (at added cost i may add) and yet devs still manage to get those cards below 60fps at 1080p on games that dont really push the envelope.

imagine if right now the devs were forced to optimize games for a 7xxx / 600 series current gen they would look amazing, consoles are looking really old now but in fairness some games aren't too far behind overall in visual quality through extremely clever coding and they run awful GPU's

I totally agree...let software catch up a bit first before we advance hardware efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

The reason why developers did not push for better hardware was because they hit a wall in PS3 and Xbox 360, which both are nearly 9 years old. 9 years is an extremely long time for a computer, even standardized ones.

However, programming three separate versions was more expensive than porting a console one over to the PC. That is why GPUs back in the mid 2000s were still being mentioned in the "recommended" system requirements for many games.

By "waiting for them", there would be less incentive to keep pushing the software envelope.

Software follows hardware, not the other way around.

current gen consoles are no where near 9 years...but they are ancient alright.
     
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