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Linux won't boot when set CPU multi x21 - Page 4

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by EduFurtado View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by FateousMaximous View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by EduFurtado View Post

it was stable with one OS, it should be stable with the other.



What everyone has been saying the entire time is that Linux is more efficient with it's CPU usage, and because of that Linux is more picky when it comes to overclocking than Windows is. Therefore you need to basically forget everything from when you overclocked it with Windows because with Linux it is a completely different beast. The problem seems to be that forcing a multiplier of 21 causes some slight instability with your chip that windows didn't care about, but is causing problems with Linux. You're likely going to have to either accept that you can't force the multi to be 21 and live with a lower overclock that will still probably preform just as well or better than a higher overclock in windows, or go back to windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by EduFurtado View Post

it was stable with one OS, it should be stable with the other.

I think we've tried to be nice long enough. But have you not read anything we said?

Linux uses the CPU more efficiently than Windows does, so what Windows may consider stable, may not be stable enough for Linux to consider stable.

If you don't understand this simple concept, give up on Linux and go back to Windows.

Oh, so you have been TRYING to be nice?

You are the ones that think you know SOOOO much, but guess what? Do you know those people that think they know everything already, so they turn they back to new things and end up as the most ignorant ones around all of those with their eyes opened?

YOU are one of them, my friend.



PLEASE, give me some PROOF proof.gif that linux uses the CPu so much better to explain everything that is going on?


Moreover, why the heck do you assume you are the linux expert and I'm the one that doesn't know anything about it, buddy? I bet I know just as much or more than you about linux.

You are the one that haven't been paying attention to what I was saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathris View Post

It has nothing to do with stability. Linux incorrectly reads the multiplier, assuming its 20x when its actually 21x. This causes a timing discrepancy that results in a kernel panic. Eg. say you have bclk set to 191x21 for 4011MHz actual speed. Linux acts as if its running at 191x20 for 3820MHz.

THIS is what I was thinking of an couldn't put into words.Makes sense, instead of just self promoting "This is like this and it is because I know it"
Suspected something like this from the start.

Did you ran into this same problem? (I guess not since, I had a p55 FTW and I didn't remember it allowing me to force x21 multi. Great board, until my old PSU fried it frown.gif )




since when do you become a Linux judge? I've yet to see any evidence supporting narthris's theory, and while that might be the case, shrak is a big regular here, so are most of the people here that tried to help you. considering you seem pretty new at this, back off until you become as knowledgeable about *nix as I know many of the people here including shrak are. he isn't tring to be a jerk- just basiclly everyone is telling you of a common problem windows users have, but rather then take some advice and save your board/cpu you keep asking questions until you get the answer you want. If you can't see quite plainly what a jerk you've been to people trying to help you then you need to have your head checked. you want proof? take a drop by the folding at home forums. or BOINC. but if your going to continue to be like this stay away from the Linux forums

@narthis- nothing on you, just about the way he is posting
post #32 of 36
Edit: You know what, it's not worth it. You've been given the information you need.

Take it or leave it, that's your choice.
Edited by Shrak - 2/22/13 at 7:44pm
post #33 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Go to the F@H and BOINC sections and ask them why they use Linux. Reason? Even in a VM it'll net them more points than on native Windows because of how efficient Linux is with the CPU compared to how horrible Windows is. And that's just one example where you can find instant proof fast. If you want more proof, go spend some time googling and learning about both how Windows work and how Linux works. Sorry to break it to you but Windows is terrible when it comes to handling not only the CPU, but your RAM and plenty of other things. Just because Microsoft has a monopoly doesn't mean Windows is the best and it has no problems, Microsoft has a monopoly because they played dirty, and are still playing dirty.
You didn't leave me any rep, so you can be happy. Haven't received any rep from this thread yet. If you think I'm spreading stupidity when everyone here has told you the same thing, then you're the idiot. Mushroomboy said it first, everyone else after. Just because you didn't understand it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

I don't really need to google for it because I can learn that from doctors on my university.

By the way, I asked "PLEASE, give me some PROOF that linux uses the CPu so much better to explain everything that is going on?" You still haven't answered any of that.
TO me you are just a linux fan boy, nothign more than that. Learn how to embrace everything around you. You are so positive about linux that you completely negate any positive sides of windows. Anyway, this thread has a different purpose than discussing this.

Quote:
As for my tone, you came here asking for help as you didn't know Linux. You then continued to call all of us wrong because it didn't make sense to you. No matter how much we tried to help. So I gave you the simplest option of all, accept what we've told you, or just simply give up on Linux as you seem to know exactly whats wrong, even though you constantly say you don't.

Take it or leave it, that's your choice.

repeating the same thing over and over and over and over and over again doesn't make it right.


I have/had many hypothesis about the case. None of them conclusive, made sense, had proven to be science.
You did help, but not with answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 
since when do you become a Linux judge? I've yet to see any evidence supporting narthris's theory, and while that might be the case, shrak is a big regular here, so are most of the people here that tried to help you. considering you seem pretty new at this, back off until you become as knowledgeable about *nix as I know many of the people here including shrak are. he isn't tring to be a jerk- just basiclly everyone is telling you of a common problem windows users have, but rather then take some advice and save your board/cpu you keep asking questions until you get the answer you want. If you can't see quite plainly what a jerk you've been to people trying to help you then you need to have your head checked. you want proof? take a drop by the folding at home forums. or BOINC. but if your going to continue to be like this stay away from the Linux forums

@narthis- nothing on you, just about the way he is posting
narthris's theory does sound better than what you were saying.

I can prove you were wrong with the data I provided. I mean, it doesn't seem to be a stability issue they way you are thinking it is.

"common problem windows users have" this sounds so like fascism. I mean, bunch of guys blindly supporting each other and they are right, everyone else is wrong and has "problems" that should be fixed somehow (by extermination of all windows' computers?)
Explain to me how that is a problem: it works on X, it doesn't on Y. X has a problem, Y doesn't. I know you are talking about how the CPU is handled. But hey, if you want to be so radical, why don't we complain about how x86 is? Isn't it the problem, after all? ...

Anyway, I love the same aspect you are mentioning to me about the CPU management on linux. But I also love it on windows, simply because my laptop battery lasts longer on windows.

I'm not disrespecting any of you. I'm just not the kind of people that ignores my own intuitions. Also, if I think I'm right I stand for what I believe, even when everyone says I'm wrong - until proven wrong smile.gif







I think I should run some tests here to get some actual data and hopefully cease this discussion because it's going nowhere for now.


PS: What ALL of you have been saying, makes no sense because of this: (read carefully, please)
windows:
stable @ 3,8 with x21 multi. 1.35vcore 1.15 vtt
stable @ 3,8 with x20 multi, 1.35vcore 1.20 vtt

linux:
unstable @ 3,8 with x21 multi. 1.35vcore 1.15 vtt
unstable @ 3,8 with x21 multi. 1.40vcore 1.20 vtt - should be stable, right? At least to boot.
stable @ 3,8 with x20 multi, 1.35vcore 1.20 vtt - same as windows. this is what makes me think it's related to the multiplier.
post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by EduFurtado View Post

/snipped

PS: What ALL of you have been saying, makes no sense because of this: (read carefully, please)
windows:
stable @ 3,8 with x21 multi. 1.35vcore 1.15 vtt
stable @ 3,8 with x20 multi, 1.35vcore 1.20 vtt

linux:
unstable @ 3,8 with x21 multi. 1.35vcore 1.15 vtt
unstable @ 3,8 with x21 multi. 1.40vcore 1.20 vtt - should be stable, right? At least to boot.
stable @ 3,8 with x20 multi, 1.35vcore 1.20 vtt - same as windows. this is what makes me think it's related to the multiplier.

How can you possibly ignore the "data" you just gave us right there. Windows is known to be lax on OCing compared to Linux and you kept ignoring people telling you this. The definition of crazy is trying the same exact thing and expecting different results...so....

How do you even know it is stable? Have you run P95 in Linux for say...24 hours? You have burned so many bridges in the community because you fail to accept reality. If you don't trust us go have a talk with the kernel maintainers or maybe Linus himself can explain it to you. rolleyes.gif

PS: I'll agree with you that in general Windows is easier to have the battery last longer...but then it becomes painfully slow. My N450 would last 10-12 hours in Windows with the methods I knew but that came at the cost of watching words I type show up whole 2 seconds after I typed them among other painful slow downs. Moved to Linux and had at best 8 hours (average 6-7) battery life...BUT I could do much more faster. So which would you rather have?
     
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CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Intel Core m3-6Y30 Intel HD515 8GB 1866DDR3L Micron M600 MTFDDAV256MBF M.2, 256 GB 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
Fanless Win10 Home x64 Kubuntu 16.04 (requires Linux kernel 4.5/4.6) 13.3 inch 16:9, 1920x1080 pixel, AU Optronics A... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AthlonIIX4 640 3.62GHz (250x14.5) 2.5GHz NB Asus M4A785TD-M EVO MSI GTX275 (Stock 666) 8GBs of GSkill 1600 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
4GBs of Adata 1333 Kingston HyperX 3k 120GB WD Caviar Black 500GB Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
LG 8X BDR (WHL08S20) Cooler Master Hyper 212+ Kubuntu x64 Windows 7 x64 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Bodhi Linux x64 Acer G215H (1920x1080) Seasonic 520 HAF912 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
N450 1.8GHz AC and 1.66GHz batt ASUS proprietary for 1001P GMA3150 (can play bluray now!?) 1GB DDR2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSOS
160GB LGLHDLBDRE32X Bodhi Linux Fedora LXDE 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
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PowerCase
6 cells=6-12hrs and a charger 1001P MU17 Black 
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post #35 of 36
Regardless of whether or not Linux uses the CPU more efficiently or not (I don't know), it's empirically known that Linux is more picky about overclocks than Windows. I can't prove that evolution is true or that quantum physics is real, of course, no one can since we can't go back in time and in general observations only allow us to build models but not prove things, but we sure do have a lot of data to make those assumptions reasonable.

I wonder, how does Xaero have a stable system if nathris turns out to be right? Something doesn't match up...
post #36 of 36
I don't think you fully read one of posts. OCing not a measure of two things, clock speed and voltage, but many, the multipler is one. Even the clock speed is exactly the same, some multipliers will be more unstable as others. Plain and simple. Linux speads the usage over the whole CPU, and thus any fault are picked out quickly. But if you have been reading, we've already given examples of how CPU use it better then in windows. You seem stuck on this, and while I respect your opinion, I know for a fact that almost all of the people here, in the LINUX section, know more about linux then you.
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