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post #41 of 66
First, to your questions:

1. Something like an nvidia 660ti will be ideal for occasional gaming. You could go up to a 670 if there's the money and you want plenty of gaming power, but it's not necessary. What I would do though is get plenty of VRAM, preferably 4GB, because if you switch to suround monitors, a lot of VRAM gets used (in gaming, doesn't matter for desktop work). 2GB will actually be fine, but if you move up to a 670, try to find a 4GB one if the price is reasonable - it'll future proof you a bit if you're only a very casual gamer, since if games in 3 years are routinely using more than 2GB you'll be OK.

2. I can't speak definitively but I will say I think you'd be hard pushed to know the difference due to the extra cache. The 3930k is _much_ better bang for your buck, and already has adequate cache, just get a decent motherboard and overclock it plenty and it'll be so fast you won't know what hit you.

3. I'd still get 32GB, 16 is a bit tight to be running VMs, it's certainly possible, but I'd err on the side of a bit more given what you'll be doing on this box, and RAM is plenty cheap (at least compared to 3970Xs). I have 16GB and run VMs occasionally - I've not had the machine grind to a halt ever, but certainly I've got close to using all my RAM, and that's just with a couple of linux VMs, some browsers and stuff on the native box etc. I'd prefer 32GB myself and will probably do that fairly soon - I certainly wouldn't build a new machine with only 16GB.

4. The Samsung 830s have acquired a reputation as extremely reliable. The 840s are more untested so far, but I find it unlikely they'd be risking the reputation they've built, and I haven't heard of any problems since the 840s did come out (like 2 months ago I think). Corsair have _awful_ customer service - I warn people off them whenever I can. Plextor make good SSDs too, Intel make absolutely excellent (but pricey) ones. I've also had nothing but trouble with Corsair RAM, so if I were you I'd look at G-Skill, or the Samsung "wonder ram" which I don't know much about (even if it's still available) but I know it was very cheap and overclocked like a champ.

The only other thing I'd say is it sound like you're working at relatively low resolutions - if you can afford it I'd look at getting a 27" 2560x1440 IPS, there are quite a few available now that use the "A-" grade reject panels that Dell and HP won't use and they are, for all practical purposes, perfect, but half the price. I have some Crossover 27Q LED-P here, quite a few people have also brought Yamakasi Catleaps, Crossover 3020MDP and several other models - they all use the same panel, but the case and features are different, you're looking at about $400 on ebay from Korea for a monitor that would cost $1000 in the US. You can buy a squaretrade third-party warranty on them if you're concerned about buying a grey import and being without support.
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post #42 of 66
You probably wouldn't even need to raise the VCore to get 4.2GHz on the 3930K. 3960X and 3970X only have a very marginal improvement over the 3930K. It's worth not getting them just to not encourage Intel to charge twice as much for CPUs that are only marginally better.

I was originally looking at the 3960X for my build, but went with the 3930K for the above reasons. Mine overclocks easily and safely up to 4.6GHz @ 1.35 VCore under a decent air cooler.

Look at it this way: I have 64GB of RAM, and will get another EVGA 680 FTW+ (if not a couple more) soon, and I'm not even willing to waste the money on a 3970X. thumb.gif

I also keep the 3930K dynamically fully loaded crunching in the background and hosting a Minecraft server nearly 24/7 while I go about my normal business on the computer, which includes gaming.

I understand the desire to have the best, but the 3970X is truly not worth it for the only marginal improvement it has to offer.
Edited by Wrend - 2/18/13 at 5:10pm
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post #43 of 66
Why u don't get Xeon for this kind aplication? xeon wolud be overwhelming than core i7 3970X
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post #44 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrend View Post

You probably wouldn't even need to raise the VCore to get 4.2GHz on the 3930K. 3960X and 3970X only have a very marginal improvement over the 3930K. It's worth not getting them just to not encourage Intel to charge twice as much for CPUs that are only marginally better.

I was originally looking at the 3960X for my build, but went with the 3930K for the above reasons. Mine overclocks easily and safely up to 4.6GHz @ 1.35 VCore under a decent air cooler.

Look at it this way: I have 64GB of RAM, and will get another EVGA 680 FTW+ (if not a couple more) soon, and I'm not even willing to waste the money on a 3970X. thumb.gif

I also keep the 3930K dynamically fully loaded crunching in the background and hosting a Minecraft server nearly 24/7 while I go about my normal business on the computer, which includes gaming.

I understand the desire to have the best, but the 3970X is truly not worth it for the only marginal improvement it has to offer.

you guys are slowly talking me into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kid781 View Post

Why u don't get Xeon for this kind aplication? xeon wolud be overwhelming than core i7 3970X

I don't know; can you give me a reason why I should? What is the tradeoff?
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post #45 of 66
A few question to gauge what your use of the computer is exactly:
  1. What type of games do you play?
  2. Have you thought about more monitors?
  3. What programs do you run in your VMs?
  4. Have you thought about a mechanical keyboard?

From my experience in software engineering and considering that you are getting by with a Core 2 Duo, I do not see the reason to splurge on a six-core processor. Comparing the i7-3770k and the i7-3930k, even the most intense software IDEs can compile a very large project(hundreds of classes) well within 5 minutes of each other. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/334

As a programmar myself I found that multiple monitors can benefit a lot more than increased compiling time(only benefit from the CPU upgrade). Having multiple monitors allows you to have the code on one monitor, a debugger screen on another, and the console/output on another.

Only benefit I see in having two GPUs is if you require the CUDA acceleration which is most used in applications like AutoCAD or if you want the increase gaming performance.

One major investment I recommend is getting a mechanical keyboard if you do not own one. They make typing a lot more comfortable, especially if you are working on your computer 24/7. Mechanical keyboards are different from membrane dome keyboards in that they use an actual switch for actuation which allows for more accurate typing.
Edited by SageQi - 2/18/13 at 9:10pm
post #46 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageQi View Post

A few question to gauge what your use of the computer is exactly:
  1. What type of games do you play?
  2. Have you thought about more monitors?
  3. What programs do you run in your VMs?
  4. Have you thought about a mechanical keyboard?

From my experience in software engineering and considering that you are getting by with a Core 2 Duo, I do not see the reason to splurge on a six-core processor. Comparing the i7-3770k and the i7-3930k, even the most intense software IDEs can compile a very large project(hundreds of classes) well within 5 minutes of each other. http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/334

As a programmar myself I found that multiple monitors can benefit a lot more than increased compiling time(only benefit from the CPU upgrade). Having multiple monitors allows you to have the code on one monitor, a debugger screen on another, and the console/output on another.

Only benefit I see in having two GPUs is if you require the CUDA acceleration which is most used in applications like AutoCAD or if you want the increase gaming performance.

One major investment I recommend is getting a mechanical keyboard if you do not own one. They make typing a lot more comfortable, especially if you are working on your computer 24/7. Mechanical keyboards are different from membrane dome keyboards in that they use an actual switch for actuation which allows for more accurate typing.

hi, yea I'm not sold on the two cards. I mostly play gaves from 2 or 3 years back, but I will aldo want to play Skyrm soon and I have Deus Ex waiting.

as for the coding aspect, the C2D works just fine. The problem comes from running VMs.

do regarding the VMs, I will run anything like an old app of a client that I'm rewriting to SharePoint, to Linux, OS X (at least trying), etc.

keyboard, I have a Logitech DiNovo and I like it a lot. Its a gift from wife so even if I wanted to replace it, I couldn't. As for more monitors, yes I have thought about it but because of space, its not an option right now.
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post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomaszewski View Post

hi, yea I'm not sold on the two cards. I mostly play gaves from 2 or 3 years back, but I will aldo want to play Skyrm soon and I have Deus Ex waiting.

as for the coding aspect, the C2D works just fine. The problem comes from running VMs.

do regarding the VMs, I will run anything like an old app of a client that I'm rewriting to SharePoint, to Linux, OS X (at least trying), etc.

keyboard, I have a Logitech DiNovo and I like it a lot. Its a gift from wife so even if I wanted to replace it, I couldn't. As for more monitors, yes I have thought about it but because of space, its not an option right now.

Hmm... a single GTX 680 or 7970 would be fine. There's no need for the SLI option for those games.

But do seriously think about getting a 2x or 3x monitor setup. It will increase your productivity a lot more than having a faster CPU. Since you are running a lot of VMs, the extra monitors will allow you to have a VM per monitor and have a lot of room for each.

It seems like you are set on the 2011 socket so like everyone else I would also recommend the 3930k. The performance you gain from the 3960x is not worth the premium that it comes with.
post #48 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisTheSpider View Post

First, to your questions:

1. Something like an nvidia 660ti will be ideal for occasional gaming. You could go up to a 670 if there's the money and you want plenty of gaming power, but it's not necessary. What I would do though is get plenty of VRAM, preferably 4GB, because if you switch to suround monitors, a lot of VRAM gets used (in gaming, doesn't matter for desktop work). 2GB will actually be fine, but if you move up to a 670, try to find a 4GB one if the price is reasonable - it'll future proof you a bit if you're only a very casual gamer, since if games in 3 years are routinely using more than 2GB you'll be OK.

2. I can't speak definitively but I will say I think you'd be hard pushed to know the difference due to the extra cache. The 3930k is _much_ better bang for your buck, and already has adequate cache, just get a decent motherboard and overclock it plenty and it'll be so fast you won't know what hit you.

3. I'd still get 32GB, 16 is a bit tight to be running VMs, it's certainly possible, but I'd err on the side of a bit more given what you'll be doing on this box, and RAM is plenty cheap (at least compared to 3970Xs). I have 16GB and run VMs occasionally - I've not had the machine grind to a halt ever, but certainly I've got close to using all my RAM, and that's just with a couple of linux VMs, some browsers and stuff on the native box etc. I'd prefer 32GB myself and will probably do that fairly soon - I certainly wouldn't build a new machine with only 16GB.

4. The Samsung 830s have acquired a reputation as extremely reliable. The 840s are more untested so far, but I find it unlikely they'd be risking the reputation they've built, and I haven't heard of any problems since the 840s did come out (like 2 months ago I think). Corsair have _awful_ customer service - I warn people off them whenever I can. Plextor make good SSDs too, Intel make absolutely excellent (but pricey) ones. I've also had nothing but trouble with Corsair RAM, so if I were you I'd look at G-Skill, or the Samsung "wonder ram" which I don't know much about (even if it's still available) but I know it was very cheap and overclocked like a champ.

The only other thing I'd say is it sound like you're working at relatively low resolutions - if you can afford it I'd look at getting a 27" 2560x1440 IPS, there are quite a few available now that use the "A-" grade reject panels that Dell and HP won't use and they are, for all practical purposes, perfect, but half the price. I have some Crossover 27Q LED-P here, quite a few people have also brought Yamakasi Catleaps, Crossover 3020MDP and several other models - they all use the same panel, but the case and features are different, you're looking at about $400 on ebay from Korea for a monitor that would cost $1000 in the US. You can buy a squaretrade third-party warranty on them if you're concerned about buying a grey import and being without support.
good advice, thanks.
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post #49 of 66
I agree with virtually everything everyone has said here regarding the 3930 vs 3970. 3MB Cache extra doesn't necessarily translate into a net gain of 5% performance either.
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post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomaszewski View Post

you guys are slowly talking me into it.

...

I don't know; can you give me a reason why I should? What is the tradeoff?

You don't have to take our word on it either. There are plenty of professional reviewers that pretty much say the same, even giving the gold medal (as it were) to the 3930K for best in class which would normally be reserved for the top performer on that socket type, but even they came to the same conclusions after testing them side by side, that the 60X, 70X just aren't worth the added cost. (It's been a while since I've gone through these reviews, having made my decision a while ago now, but that's the gist of it.)

As for Xeon socket 2011, you're talking same threads and lower clock, or 4 more threads lower clock, or same threads stock clock of the 3960X for a slightly higher price, or 4 more threads same stock clock of the 3930K but for $2,000. Advantage goes to the Xeons for intense multi-threaded applications and somewhat improved reliability (though honestly, that very likely won't be an issue either way) only (unless maybe you feel like dropping $2,000 on your CPU). For general use (including gaming and multi-threading/crunching) the i7s have the advantage, especially for cost effectiveness, and within that the 3930K is where it's at for doing just about everything very well, while keeping the price reasonable.

Here's the breakdown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2011
Edited by Wrend - 2/19/13 at 12:39am
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